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The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

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Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#281

Post by aexaey »

wobbleblob wrote: post #236
djsumdog wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of bicycles in The Netherlands is absolutely surreal. Both in major cities and out in the suburbs, bicycles are everywhere. I also find it interesting the Dutch rarely ever wear helmets. Large cities in Germany or the UK or anywhere else I've seen cannot compare to the magnitude of people on bicycles in The Netherlands.

If you've tried driving in the Netherlands, you know why so many people prefer to ride a bike instead. Well maintained, but narrow and extremely busy roads, densely packed with tiny vehicles. Wearing a helmet while cycling in the Dutch bike lanes is a bit like wearing a helmet while walking on the side walk. I used to only wear it while racing. Since I had a bad crash after being hit in the eye by an insect, I wear a…

Indeed, Dutch view this two ways to use bicycle very differently. There are even completely different verbs to describe that:

- fietsen i.e. literally "bicycling" would refer to riding an opafiets [1] bicycle, at moderate speed, without helmet or any sort of cycling attire;

- wielrennen, i.e. literally "wheel running" instead describes sort of cycling that you would see in Tour de France race - racing bike, helmet, lycra gear on, considerably faster.

Second is far less common, and doing so on busy city streets during rush hour is frowned upon, of course.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roadster_(bicycle)

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#282

Post by NetStrikeForce »

rwmj wrote: post #245
mafribe wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typical bicyle helmets don't help much with a face-first landing on the tarmac, your chin takes most of the pounding. I can confidently say that from repeated ... 'experiments'. In contrast, a motorcyle helmet that also wraps around the chin would be of great use in most bicycle accidents. 185 cyclists died A more interesting statistic would be: how many of those deaths would have been prevented by a bicycle helmet?

A more interesting statistic is: How many more people would have died through pollution / heart disease if everyone drove cars instead of cycling?

But wearing helmet doesn't cause more pollution, so I guess that statistic is very good for a different discussion :-)

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#283

Post by sambe »

mpol wrote: post #254
CorbenDallas wrote: post #157

Amsterdam resident here. Such a good infrastructure and laws for the bycyclists make them not giving a single shit about the way they are actually driving their bycicles. And their behaviour and driving style is often very offensive to both pedestrians and car users. So it's not that straight and black and white.

That is mostly just Amsterdam. In the rest of the Netherlands this behaviour is being frowned upon. And it is often not the Dutch people. Half the people in Amsterdam is tourists.

In Amsterdam at least, it is certainly not tourists who create most of the problems. Tourists are just a nuisance, usually clueless and going very slow and massively in the minority despite the overall popularity of the city.

Dutch cyclists are substantially more likely to be running red lights without looking, at speed. They are more likely to be using their phone - meandering all over the path - or at night without lights. Stopping or turning without signalling - without checking over their shoulder - or pulling onto a cycle path without looking. There's also just as much nuisance cycling from groups of students two or three bikes wide having a social event during rush hour as there is from tourists wobbling around trying to figure out where they are going.

This is a familiar pattern: exactly the same as car drivers, people think being experienced means you can get away with being lazy and/or selfish. Then just blame "those other people" for the problems.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#284

Post by WillKirkby »

carterehsmith wrote: post #106

Perhaps we could add radars that block the door if there is a risk of dooring, either by a bike, or another car. The car manufacturers have just agreed to put collision mitigation systems in all cars (by 2020 or something), and that requires radars and cameras. Even better, some cars have radars in the back, too, to identify cross traffic & c. So, identifying potential dooring event as well, might be quite doable usi…

By blocking the door if you detect an oncoming cyclist, you've created a new problem. What if it false-positives? What if it false-positives and your car is on fire? What if hackers find some way to fool the sensor?

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#285

Post by Super_Jambo »

NetStrikeForce wrote: post #276
speleding wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wearing a helmet in your car would prevent a lot of injuries as well, and nobody does that. This is just a risk/reward trade off and I (as a Dutch cyclist) feel a few additional deaths on the total population is not worth the effort. And the things are uncomfortable and impractical: what are you going to do with it when you arrive on your destination? Lug it around all day? Bring a bag everywhere?

Don't you carry a bag around already? If your commute is one hour cycling in guessing you might sweat and need a shower? I cycle to work (in the UK, similar climate I guess) for about 15 minutes each way with no steep roads and I gotta be very careful with my pace if I don't want to sweat.

It's much easier to control your pace and avoid sweating on a dutch commuter bike surrounded by your fellow dutch commuters whilst in the pancake flat NL.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#286

Post by tasty_freeze »

tluyben2 wrote: post #136
djsumdog wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of bicycles in The Netherlands is absolutely surreal. Both in major cities and out in the suburbs, bicycles are everywhere. I also find it interesting the Dutch rarely ever wear helmets. Large cities in Germany or the UK or anywhere else I've seen cannot compare to the magnitude of people on bicycles in The Netherlands.

> I also find it interesting the Dutch rarely ever wear helmets. Good or bad; I am Dutch and I would confidently say that all people I know would never ride a bike again if they have to wear those silly helmets. More likely if it would be mandatory, they just would refuse and not do it, but if largely enforced they would just not use bikes anymore.

Your use of the pejorative "silly" is indeed indicative of why Dutch people wouldn't use them. They might be silly for low speed commute cycling, but labeling the helmets silly in and of themselves is, uh, silly. Perhaps you should have said Dutch people would view wearing the helmets for bike commuting to be silly.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#287

Post by mvdwoord »

juiced wrote: post #239

Bullshit. I'm Dutch, never heard of or exercised this "Dutch Reach" behaviour and I was not tested for it when getting my driver's license. Instead, you just look around and in your mirrors to see if other traffic is coming before blindly and like an asshole opening your door, it doesn't matter how you open the door after you became aware of what is going on around you. I call this behaviour the "Dutch Common Sense".

Second this. I learned to use mirrors and look over your shoulder as you open the door. Like you would if you were to take a left turn. Basic situational awareness.. This whole "Dutch reach" thing sounds more like something written for the internet points.

As for the whole helmet thing, they do not make you more safe. Proper infrastructure makes you more safe. Unless you're riding downhill, racing or performing stunts. You don't wear kneepads when you walk down the street do you?

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#288

Post by Sander_Marechal »

NetStrikeForce wrote: post #276
speleding wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wearing a helmet in your car would prevent a lot of injuries as well, and nobody does that. This is just a risk/reward trade off and I (as a Dutch cyclist) feel a few additional deaths on the total population is not worth the effort. And the things are uncomfortable and impractical: what are you going to do with it when you arrive on your destination? Lug it around all day? Bring a bag everywhere?

Don't you carry a bag around already? If your commute is one hour cycling in guessing you might sweat and need a shower? I cycle to work (in the UK, similar climate I guess) for about 15 minutes each way with no steep roads and I gotta be very careful with my pace if I don't want to sweat.

> If your commute is one hour cycling in guessing you might sweat and need a shower?

Not really. Our cycling is pretty relaxed, it's not like we're trying to race there as fast as possible. And we don't have steep hills to climb either. The only time I really sweat on a bike is when I'm wearing a rain suit. The lack of ventilation causes transpiration.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#289

Post by crummy »

mjhagen wrote: post #265
arve0 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or hang it on the bicycle?

That would certainly not get stolen.

You're already locking your bike, you can loop the lock through one of your helmet straps (I do and have never had a helmet stolen, except when the whole bike was).

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#290

Post by jorgenhorstink »

A couple of months ago I watched a short video about how we got our cycling lanes. I think it provides some interesting context on why we built our cycling infrastructure. If you like this topic, you'll like the video...

https://youtu.be/XuBdf9jYj7o

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