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Elephants without tusks are a response to the selective pressure of poaching

nautil.us

61–70 of 90 posts

Re: Elephants without tusks are a response to the selective pressure of poaching

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Collectively they do, but no individual poacher has much to gain from killing an individual tuskless elephant. It's like a tragedy of the commons, but one that works out well for the elephants.

They do kill them so that they don't try to track the animal again in the future.

Apparently they don't. Otherwise we wouldn't be reading this story.

Re: Elephants without tusks are a response to the selective pressure of poaching

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would the cyanide slowly leach out when people touch it or something like that?

Tusks are used in "traditional medicines", among other uses. Even the threat of poisoned ivory would be a strong disincentive for that market. Permanently stained tusks have been used to dissuade material use (e.g., statues or figures).

Would not stained tusks have an impact on the elephants perception of each other? We as human beings have all sorts of perceptions on obesity, skin colour, hair colour..

Re: Elephants without tusks are a response to the selective pressure of poaching

#63
Wouldn't fighting poaching just increase the overall value of ivory? Drones, guns and enforcement will just cause x10 in price?

Seems like instead of following the "war on drugs" model we should stuff the market full of practically identical synthetic ivory? Or focus on mass elephant reproduction.

One of the comments suggests money to fight poaching - I fear again, wrong approach.

Re: Elephants without tusks are a response to the selective pressure of poaching

#64
post #32

I'm hoping that at some point in the future, ML + drones will make poaching a thing of the past. Unfortunately, some African countries, such as Zimbabwe and South Africa, have restrictions on drone ownership. Also if you want to help, you should consider donating to the International Anti-Poaching Foundation[0][1] which fights these poachers. The founder, Damien Mander[2], is an Australian ex spec-ops sniper who is u…

It would be much better to soak some ivory in cyanide or something stronger and get it into market.

Relevant: https://www.savetherhino.org/rhino_info/thorny_issues/dyeing...

Re: Elephants without tusks are a response to the selective pressure of poaching

#65
post #32

I'm hoping that at some point in the future, ML + drones will make poaching a thing of the past. Unfortunately, some African countries, such as Zimbabwe and South Africa, have restrictions on drone ownership. Also if you want to help, you should consider donating to the International Anti-Poaching Foundation[0][1] which fights these poachers. The founder, Damien Mander[2], is an Australian ex spec-ops sniper who is u…

It would be much better to soak some ivory in cyanide or something stronger and get it into market.

Relevant: https://www.savetherhino.org/rhino_info/thorny_issues/dyeing...

Re: Elephants without tusks are a response to the selective pressure of poaching

#66

Wouldn't fighting poaching just increase the overall value of ivory? Drones, guns and enforcement will just cause x10 in price? Seems like instead of following the "war on drugs" model we should stuff the market full of practically identical synthetic ivory? Or focus on mass elephant reproduction. One of the comments suggests money to fight poaching - I fear again, wrong approach.

> Wouldn't fighting poaching just increase the overall value of ivory?

That implies that less ivory makes it to the market which means that more elephants make it through life without getting killed for their tusks.

Ivory isn't as easily produced as most drugs so the price of ivory is dictated by scarcity even absent any other controls.

You could make as much of most drugs as bulk chemistry or farming allows.

So the value of ivory going up as a result of being tougher on poachers would be proof that it is working.

Re: Elephants without tusks are a response to the selective pressure of poaching

#67

I'm hoping that at some point in the future, ML + drones will make poaching a thing of the past. Unfortunately, some African countries, such as Zimbabwe and South Africa, have restrictions on drone ownership. Also if you want to help, you should consider donating to the International Anti-Poaching Foundation[0][1] which fights these poachers. The founder, Damien Mander[2], is an Australian ex spec-ops sniper who is u…

I'm not sure how restrictions on drone ownership would be a hindrance if drones become a useful tool in preventing poaching. After all, guns are used in fighting poaching yet gun ownership is restricted in (I presume) most countries.

Re: Elephants without tusks are a response to the selective pressure of poaching

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tusks are used in "traditional medicines", among other uses. Even the threat of poisoned ivory would be a strong disincentive for that market. Permanently stained tusks have been used to dissuade material use (e.g., statues or figures).

Would not stained tusks have an impact on the elephants perception of each other? We as human beings have all sorts of perceptions on obesity, skin colour, hair colour..

I think what eknkc suggested was that the cyanide was to be applied to ivory which had already been collected, not on live elephants.

Re: Elephants without tusks are a response to the selective pressure of poaching

#69

Wouldn't fighting poaching just increase the overall value of ivory? Drones, guns and enforcement will just cause x10 in price? Seems like instead of following the "war on drugs" model we should stuff the market full of practically identical synthetic ivory? Or focus on mass elephant reproduction. One of the comments suggests money to fight poaching - I fear again, wrong approach.

> Wouldn't fighting poaching just increase the overall value of ivory? That implies that less ivory makes it to the market which means that more elephants make it through life without getting killed for their tusks. Ivory isn't as easily produced as most drugs so the price of ivory is dictated by scarcity even absent any other controls. You could make as much of most drugs as bulk chemistry or farming allows. So the…

> So the value of ivory going up as a result of being tougher on poachers would be proof that it is working.

Have you taken Economics 101? You do remember what happens when the selling price of a good gets too high? Lots of profit to be made will encourage poachers to hunt. They will take even larger risks (e.g. Being shot by drone) to obtain ivory since the profits are too high.

Re: Elephants without tusks are a response to the selective pressure of poaching

#70
Imagine what selective pressure could do in the future. Any non-human beneficial species is basically a pro. Eat poisonous algea and become un-eatable and you wont be hunted. Distribute Ambrosia near your living space, and human hikers will leave you alone. This would make a nice apocalyptic trailer speach: "They had miss-treated here and thought about making ammends, but she would have non of it. Mother nature is back, with a vengence! This year, outside of theaters."
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