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Elephants without tusks are a response to the selective pressure of poaching

nautil.us

31–40 of 90 posts

Re: Elephants without tusks are a response to the selective pressure of poaching

#31
post #29

You should think a little bit ahead of that, give them fake tusks filled with poison gas (anti-human only). You aren't going to win this war being the passive one.

If Nature would be able to think ahead, it'd have already colonized the Solar System.

You could argue she has, and here we are on the cusp to do just that.

Re: Elephants without tusks are a response to the selective pressure of poaching

#32

I'm hoping that at some point in the future, ML + drones will make poaching a thing of the past. Unfortunately, some African countries, such as Zimbabwe and South Africa, have restrictions on drone ownership. Also if you want to help, you should consider donating to the International Anti-Poaching Foundation[0][1] which fights these poachers. The founder, Damien Mander[2], is an Australian ex spec-ops sniper who is u…

It would be much better to soak some ivory in cyanide or something stronger and get it into market.

Re: Elephants without tusks are a response to the selective pressure of poaching

#33
post #29

You should think a little bit ahead of that, give them fake tusks filled with poison gas (anti-human only). You aren't going to win this war being the passive one.

If Nature would be able to think ahead, it'd have already colonized the Solar System.

We may well be one of the "colonized" planets.

Re: Elephants without tusks are a response to the selective pressure of poaching

#34
post #32

I'm hoping that at some point in the future, ML + drones will make poaching a thing of the past. Unfortunately, some African countries, such as Zimbabwe and South Africa, have restrictions on drone ownership. Also if you want to help, you should consider donating to the International Anti-Poaching Foundation[0][1] which fights these poachers. The founder, Damien Mander[2], is an Australian ex spec-ops sniper who is u…

It would be much better to soak some ivory in cyanide or something stronger and get it into market.

Just outlawing it might be simpler.

Re: Elephants without tusks are a response to the selective pressure of poaching

#35
post #32

I'm hoping that at some point in the future, ML + drones will make poaching a thing of the past. Unfortunately, some African countries, such as Zimbabwe and South Africa, have restrictions on drone ownership. Also if you want to help, you should consider donating to the International Anti-Poaching Foundation[0][1] which fights these poachers. The founder, Damien Mander[2], is an Australian ex spec-ops sniper who is u…

It would be much better to soak some ivory in cyanide or something stronger and get it into market.

Would the cyanide slowly leach out when people touch it or something like that?

Re: Elephants without tusks are a response to the selective pressure of poaching

#36
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be much better to soak some ivory in cyanide or something stronger and get it into market.

Just outlawing it might be simpler.

Ivory's a beautiful, extremely useful substance; outlawing it makes as little sense as outlawing alcohol, marijuana or beef. What needs to be done is to create the appropriate legal framework and property rights to give Africans an incentive to ranch elephants. Cattle will never go extinct because people like hamburgers; the idea of elephants going extinct solely because people like ivory is mad.

Elephants are going extinct because no-one has an interest in keeping them alive. Give someone a reason to keep them alive, and the species will last forever.

Re: Elephants without tusks are a response to the selective pressure of poaching

#37
post #8

Do poachers have an incentive to kill tuskless elephants too, then, so they don't become more dominant than tusked ones?

They have a larger incentive to kill fewer elephants overall so there continues to be an elephant population to profit from. It doesn't change anything because a poacher is interested in getting big money now, not establishing a sustainable income stream for future decades.

Re: Elephants without tusks are a response to the selective pressure of poaching

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the term natural selection is sort of a misnomer, makes it easy to misinterpret it as if many are let to die while few are selected. It just happens creatures that with certain traits are more adapted to survive and reproduce (not having tusks in this case), where as some other creatures are not and die. Hence those specific traits tend to be preserved in subsequent generations while the others just didn't su…

> its not like nature is cruel and killed off most species > the environment (or nature if you will), changed too drastically and quickly that most species couldn't adapt fast enough to survive. These are not mutually exclusive. Mass starvation caused by environmental changes is a cruel kill off. I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make is.

I would say you are a little too excited about the drama and morality of a statistical process, and it's occluding your understanding of what's actually going on.

Re: Elephants without tusks are a response to the selective pressure of poaching

#40
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just outlawing it might be simpler.

Ivory's a beautiful, extremely useful substance; outlawing it makes as little sense as outlawing alcohol, marijuana or beef. What needs to be done is to create the appropriate legal framework and property rights to give Africans an incentive to ranch elephants. Cattle will never go extinct because people like hamburgers; the idea of elephants going extinct solely because people like ivory is mad. Elephants are going…

> Ivory's a beautiful, extremely useful substance;

Beautiful maybe, useful, not really.

> outlawing it makes as little sense as outlawing alcohol,

Not really, prior to 2008 when the CITES relaxed ivory sale regulation, poaching was minimal. The current poaching crisis is a result of this relaxation. Not every good behaves the same way as alcohol.

> What needs to be done is to create the appropriate legal framework and property rights to give Africans an incentive to ranch elephants.

Not possible for ecological, zoological economical and ethical reasons. Elephants take at least 20 years to start growing tusks but the 'big tuskers' are ~50 years old. Also, you won't be able to produce ivory cheaper than a poacher who doesn't have to invest into the elephant. Also elephants aren't domesticated. Also they are an extremely intelligent and social species and one of the species that come up in "non-human personhood" discussions.

> What needs to be done is to create the appropriate legal framework and property rights to give Africans an incentive to ranch elephants.

Right. Establishing legal frameworks and enforcing laws in Africa is very easy.

> Elephants are going extinct because no-one has an interest in keeping them alive. Give someone a reason to keep them alive, and the species will last forever.

It's a lot more complex than that.

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