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Replacement Samsung Galaxy Note 7 phone catches fire on Southwest plane

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Re: Replacement Samsung Galaxy Note 7 phone catches fire on Southwest plane

#51

Post by yladiz »

mschuster91 wrote: post #30
yladiz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not fair to say that Samsung deserves this because of a non-removable battery. This could have happened with a removable battery too. Who knows the reason why this happened -- bad battery manufacturer, bad soldering internally, something wrong in the layout of pieces connecting the charger to the battery -- but it's unfair to say this is deserved because they removed something and added something in return, in t…

I own a CAT B15Q, water-resistant, dual-SIM and replaceable battery. Watertightness can be achieved without sacrificing replaceable batteries.

Yes, but that still doesn't mean Samsung deserves it. The fact that they don't have a removable battery doesn't mean they deserve this, and it doesn't mean that the users who buy their products deserve this.

Re: Replacement Samsung Galaxy Note 7 phone catches fire on Southwest plane

#52

Post by resolaibohp »

alexbock wrote: post #44
resolaibohp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I define above and beyond as recalling all of their defective product with no questions asked, offering a substitute while they fix the problem, and then finally replacing the phones to anyone who wants to try them again. If this is a poor company response please let me know who has done better as I would too like to do business with them instead. Clearly my experiences with companies have been drastically different…

Informally issuing a recall without going through proper government channels and accepting returns for a consumer product that poses a danger to life due to a design defect is basically the bare minimum you could possibly do in a case like this. Shipping someone a replacement that still catches fire definitely isn't helping their perception with anyone who was going to give them a second chance.

Since it seems my opinion is entirely off base I am curious how you would have liked to have seen the replacements handled? What would be above and beyond in this case?

Re: Replacement Samsung Galaxy Note 7 phone catches fire on Southwest plane

#53

Post by resolaibohp »

duskwuff wrote: post #40
resolaibohp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I define above and beyond as recalling all of their defective product with no questions asked, offering a substitute while they fix the problem, and then finally replacing the phones to anyone who wants to try them again. If this is a poor company response please let me know who has done better as I would too like to do business with them instead. Clearly my experiences with companies have been drastically different…

Recalling and replacing a product that can spontaneously catch fire is not going "above and beyond". It is the bare minimum .

What would you have liked to see beyond replacement?

Re: Replacement Samsung Galaxy Note 7 phone catches fire on Southwest plane

#54

Post by azinman2 »

rsync wrote: post #47
jagermo wrote: post #36

When we flew with Lufthansa a few weeks ago they expressly forbade the use of the Galaxy Note 7. I have never heard something like that - its a real problem for Samsung.

Swiss air flight three weeks ago - same thing. Samsung galaxy 7 specifically mentioned as cannot be powered on during the flight.

According to the story it wasn't even powered on

Re: Replacement Samsung Galaxy Note 7 phone catches fire on Southwest plane

#55

Post by j-g-faustus »

4ad wrote: post #10
JimmaDaRustla wrote: post #7

I recently flew to Munich/Prague with Air Canada and Lufthansa - the flight attendants said to both not charge a Samsung Note 7 and that they require them to actually also be turned off.

Does turning them off prevent them from catching on fire? What is the actual problem described in technical terms, really?

  Initial conclusions indicate an error in production that
  placed pressure on plates contained within battery cells.   
  That in turn brought negative and positive poles into 
  contact, triggering excessive heat. Samsung however  
  stressed that it needed to carry out a more thorough 
  analysis to determine “the exact cause” of battery damage.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-13/samsung-bl...

I seem to recall an article not too long ago (perhaps here on HN?) that analyzed the Note 7 battery failures; their conclusion was along the lines that the phone was designed too slim for the battery manufacturing tolerance.

So in some percentage of the phones the battery will be under constant mechanical pressure because the battery is slightly bigger than the space allocated for it. This pressure may eventually force the plates inside the battery into contact with each other, or at least close enough to cause leak currents and overheating.

> Does turning them off prevent them from catching on fire?

Not necessarily. Assuming the cause is as Samsung describes it, it can happen even with the phone turned off. But overheating to the point of thermal runaway is more likely at higher voltages (during charging, or with fully charged battery), and probably more likely during high current drain (aka using the phone).

For more technical details, I suggest the Electrical Engineering Stackexchange.

http://electronics.stackexchange.com/a/230164/64021

Re: Replacement Samsung Galaxy Note 7 phone catches fire on Southwest plane

#56

Post by delluminatus »

jagermo wrote: post #36

When we flew with Lufthansa a few weeks ago they expressly forbade the use of the Galaxy Note 7. I have never heard something like that - its a real problem for Samsung.

Same deal when I flew United the past weekend. Samsung Note 7s were not allowed to be turned on or charged on the plane. I think they are taking their cue from the FAA recommendation [0].

This is especially bad for Samsung, I think, because it doesn't just affect folks with a Note 7 -- everyone waiting at the gate hears the announcement. Talk about negative brand associations.

[0]: https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=86424

Re: Replacement Samsung Galaxy Note 7 phone catches fire on Southwest plane

#57

Post by spdustin »

mmagin wrote: post #26
r00fus wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So are Li-ion battery fires considered metal fires - if so, the instinctual reaction (apply water to extinguish) would be unfortunate...

Lithium ion batteries do not contain significant amounts of elemental Lithium.

But water can react with the electrolyte used in many Li-ion cells to form hydrofluoric acid.

Re: Replacement Samsung Galaxy Note 7 phone catches fire on Southwest plane

#59

Post by hga »

nostrademons wrote: post #49
fokinsean wrote: post #48

What happens if someone decides to check it in their luggage and it catches fire there. Are there measures to deal with fires in the cargo hold?

There are - after a bunch of really bad aircraft fires in the 90s caused by hazardous materials in the cargo holds, the FAA has mandated fire suppression systems in all commercial air cargo holds. Still, though, airlines would rather avoid the problem entirely. Airline safety usually relies on defense-in-depth - you fix the root cause, and then you fix anything else that would've stopped the problem, because things g…

And that is how I quickly explain ORM-D (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORM-D) class items like small arms ammunition, which of course is allowed to be packed in small quantities in individuals' checked luggage: things that aren't particularly dangerous by themselves, but if in a plane's cargo hold in sufficient quantity, could accelerate a fire beyond the capabilities of those fire suppression systems.

Whereas few overly worry about shipping 1000+/- rounds by ground, except e.g. the movers that just moved me to my new home, they really can't afford to play the game of numbers with the few trucks they have (no batteries, or liquids (which could make a schedule breaking mess), either).

Big enough high energy batteries on planes, or too close to my skin ... those give me the heebie jeebies....

Re: Replacement Samsung Galaxy Note 7 phone catches fire on Southwest plane

#60

Post by mark-r »

jagermo wrote: post #36

When we flew with Lufthansa a few weeks ago they expressly forbade the use of the Galaxy Note 7. I have never heard something like that - its a real problem for Samsung.

Same when I took a Southwest flight last week. According to the article the guy had turned off his phone just before it started smoking.
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