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Yahoo scanned customer emails for US intelligence

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Re: Yahoo scanned customer emails for US intelligence

#161

I think the attitude here that most tech companies are rolling over and just complying without a single ethical consideration is misplaced. The government has been doing an excellent job of basically extorting these companies into compliance. They threaten the full weight of the US government's wraith and then tie every order up with classifications and gag orders. You aren't legally allowed to talk to other companie…

>treating this as if the decision is easy is vastly unfair.

Especially for Yahoo, given their tough financial and market situation. It was far easier For Apple and Google.

Re: Yahoo scanned customer emails for US intelligence

#162
If she had wanted to this to get out, I wonder if she could have ordered the email team to go ahead and build out the sniffer so she is not in contempt of the court, but let her security team openly blog about it, without informing her, when they found it - which could lead to an inadvertent release of the info? If the sec team was not under the gag order maybe they would not have gotten in trouble.

Or take her to a super boss level, she could have used whisper to talk to guccifer and let him know about some vuln that would allow access to the legal directory.... which would have to gag order. #wikileakitup

Re: Yahoo scanned customer emails for US intelligence

#163
post #45

The lesson from this is to not trust corporations with out privacy. Sadly, it seems many of us are not learning it.

So who do we trust? Governments? Whatever you can say about Yahoo, they're not the one holding the gun.

> So who do we trust? Governments?

Yourself? The idea that you have to either trust governments or corporations is very much a false dichotomy.

GPG, running your own mail server, etc. may not be for you (they aren't for me), but let's not pretend cloud-hosted mail is the only option, or that encryption is impossible.

Re: Yahoo scanned customer emails for US intelligence

#164
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mayer had many choices on how to act. This is extremely newsworthy, no matter what you are "certain" about, because it has never been reported before that the government had been given realtime scanning access to a major provider. Stop trying to turn this into a stupid tabloid story about who likes or doesn't like the CEO.

I don't think you understand the nature of natural security letters. We don't know how Mayer was allowed to ask because we cannot see the letter, such is their nature

[deleted]

Re: Yahoo scanned customer emails for US intelligence

#165
post #156

I think the attitude here that most tech companies are rolling over and just complying without a single ethical consideration is misplaced. The government has been doing an excellent job of basically extorting these companies into compliance. They threaten the full weight of the US government's wraith and then tie every order up with classifications and gag orders. You aren't legally allowed to talk to other companie…

isn't the whole premise that the Big Companies actually control the government? "They threaten the full weight of the US government's wraith and then tie every order up with classifications and gag orders." full weight? You mean like a small fine ? That's what happened to Wells Fargo. The govt . seems really angry about it, but what can they really do to a corp that is considered an entity?

Maximizing shareholder value is like a death grip that squeezes any public corporation into not making financial gambles on ethical grounds.

It's so important that these leaks go public for two critical reasons:

1) with that type of financial regulatory environment for public companies, the only way to create incentives for that type of consumer protection play is when it has monetary consequences if they do nothing (customers shutting down their accounts)

2) court docs from an earlier Yahoo trial in a secret court were already released when the NSA requested a huge trove of emails and Yahoo challenged it. I read the judges ruling and the TLDR is that the judge said the customers will never know their email is being read so how can you claim that a privacy violation has occurred?

The twisted logic here is that there's no damage to the customer/company as long as the intrusion is conducted in total secrecy.

So that's why Yahoo is so willing to fold here. This is what they are dealing with.

Side note: Imagine the same logic was applied to police a search warrant that allowed police to enter hundreds of houses, a type of warrant that could never be challenged by these homeowners defence attorneys. "They'll never know police broke into their house and went through all of their drawers and personal belongings. They'll come home the next day and everything will seem exactly. the same. So what claim to privacy violation could do they have?"

The need for secrecy in FISA courts goes well beyond protecting state secrets like NSA tech. This type of judicial rationalization would never withstand scrutiny in open courts which is why total secrecy is the key.

Re: Yahoo scanned customer emails for US intelligence

#166
post #156

I think the attitude here that most tech companies are rolling over and just complying without a single ethical consideration is misplaced. The government has been doing an excellent job of basically extorting these companies into compliance. They threaten the full weight of the US government's wraith and then tie every order up with classifications and gag orders. You aren't legally allowed to talk to other companie…

isn't the whole premise that the Big Companies actually control the government? "They threaten the full weight of the US government's wraith and then tie every order up with classifications and gag orders." full weight? You mean like a small fine ? That's what happened to Wells Fargo. The govt . seems really angry about it, but what can they really do to a corp that is considered an entity?

> full weight? You mean like a small fine ?

The amount of leverage NSA/FISA have is rather different than what the CFPB has at its disposal.

Re: Yahoo scanned customer emails for US intelligence

#167

I think the attitude here that most tech companies are rolling over and just complying without a single ethical consideration is misplaced. The government has been doing an excellent job of basically extorting these companies into compliance. They threaten the full weight of the US government's wraith and then tie every order up with classifications and gag orders. You aren't legally allowed to talk to other companie…

Well, they've already "made an example" of the only company to truly stand in their way. Look at Qwest - you talk to the average citizen and their takeaway was that justice was served | A corrupt CEO ran the company into the ground and went to prison. Hurrah!

Don't pay attention to the fact he denied installing what he considered unconstitutional wire taps for the NSA resulting in the government pulling almost a billion dollars worth of contracts from the company. That example alone proved that the government can tell any narrative they want; they own the media, they'll own private companies too.

Re: Yahoo scanned customer emails for US intelligence

#169
post #40
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but there's a huge difference between a computer "seeing" your email and a human being searching for keywords within your email to decide whether or not to follow you around and/or arrest you. This report isn't complaining about unencrypted emails. It's about them giving an intelligence agency the equivalent of a `grep "terrorism" | tail -f` for all their users' email. Without a warrant. (Not that a warrant coul…

You're right, that US govt bulk-scanning is terrifying, especially without warrants. But what happens when Facebook scans your private chats and reports your illegal doings to the police? ( http://www.infowars.com/facebook-monitors-your-private-messa... ) What data restrictions do we have that would prevent $dataCompany from sharing data with other actors? I'm sure a "privacy policy" can do something, but in the end,…

thats why i like using google allo - end-to-end encryption and expiring chats

https://allo.google.com/

Re: Yahoo scanned customer emails for US intelligence

#170
Ignoring fiduciary responsibility for a minute, what would happen if a publicly-traded company refused to comply with such a court order until they were required to release a financial statement? Wouldn't they be legally required to disclose that multi-million dollar fine?

How would a company under such a gag order announce bankruptcy? "Sorry, we lost all the money and we can't tell you why"?

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