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Never accept a counter-offer

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Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#351

Post by jk563 »

ryandrake wrote: post #68
archildress wrote: post #13

This couldn't have come at a better time, as I just navigated this last week. I kind of disagree with most of what the author is saying. Here's why. The author posits that you've begun looking for a new job for a reason. There are things that you dislike about your job. That's logical, and it's the number one reason that I went on a search of my own. The problem is that there's always some level of information asymme…

> And when I notified my current employer that I was leaving, they reminded me of how valued I was with the package that they put together. Yea, you were so valued that they DIDN'T offer it to you until you threatened to leave. That doesn't sound like an employer that values you, it sounds like an employer who got away with a great bargain while it lasted.

This is the line my previous employer used when I notified them I'd received a counter before joining them.

They then did the exact same thing when it came to me leaving and didn't offer a significant raise until I had an offer elsewhere.

Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#352

Post by robalfonso »

imagist wrote: post #297
robalfonso wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some times office policies prohibit giving employees good raises and precipitate an environment where a counter offer is necessary to get a good pay bump. The act of the employee looking elsewhere usually removes those internal handcuffs. Its not always about shafting an individual so much as managing the entire business. This can also be wholly subjective to the company, culture, boss, and employee.

> Its not always about shafting an individual so much as managing the entire business. I read this as: It's not always about shafting an individual so much as shafting all the employees who will let you shaft them.

I don't think of my employees this way,in fact I just had one raised to the new "average" because it turned out they didn't negotiate well and were below average ( not my hire, just now my report) - it was a 12% raise.

Play devils advocate and see how a "mega corp" runs things. If you could pay everyone discretionally (ie decided by mid level manager) you'd be out of business tomorrow. Those companies keep cost controls just because they are so large. Larger businesses offer more employee security, but there is also less chance for financial growth. The counter offer is essentially a hack on the system.

Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#353

Post by justin66 »

UseStrict wrote: post #305

I accepted a counteroffer with mixed results. I was given an offer at a company in Europe which pretty closely matched my salary and perks. It came with a small pay bump but most importantly, extra vacation time and a solid relocation bonus. I had submitted notice with my current employer, who gave me a counteroffer matching the money, increasing my holidays and giving me the ability to work remotely from wherever I…

You still work for them?!?

Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#354

Post by infinite8s »

st3v3r wrote: post #319
fsloth wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Often great packages need some political leverage to pull through. I'm sure many good managers would like to offer their subordinates top salaries but company policies/budgets do not allow it. Only when a top performer is about to leave the equation changes from "increasing costs" to "limiting costs" - it's very expensive to recruit and retrain replacements for top talent. Yes, it sucks. But I totally understand the…

I don't see how that makes things any better or more excusable.

What makes it inexcusable?

Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#355

Post by imagist »

robalfonso wrote: post #352
imagist wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Its not always about shafting an individual so much as managing the entire business. I read this as: It's not always about shafting an individual so much as shafting all the employees who will let you shaft them.

I don't think of my employees this way,in fact I just had one raised to the new "average" because it turned out they didn't negotiate well and were below average ( not my hire, just now my report) - it was a 12% raise. Play devils advocate and see how a "mega corp" runs things. If you could pay everyone discretionally (ie decided by mid level manager) you'd be out of business tomorrow. Those companies keep cost contr…

> I don't think of my employees this way,in fact I just had one raised to the new "average" because it turned out they didn't negotiate well and were below average ( not my hire, just now my report) - it was a 12% raise.

That's very good of you.

> Play devils advocate and see how a "mega corp" runs things. If you could pay everyone discretionally (ie decided by mid level manager) you'd be out of business tomorrow. Those companies keep cost controls just because they are so large.

This is true, and a clear indictment of large corporations. Unsuprisingly, this logic only applies to the lower end of the pyramid, however--upper-level management rarely chooses to put cost controls on their own pay.

Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#356

Post by jimmywanger »

imagist wrote: post #349
jimmywanger wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would be extraordinarily difficult to prop up this delusion in the tech industry where staying at companies more than two years is unusual, so I can't imagine many employers care. I dispute that. I generally stay at companies for 4 or 5 years, and I know multiple people who have stayed at Google for 10 years. >If you agree there should be no trust here, why are you making an argument based on trust? I'm not maki…

> I dispute that. I generally stay at companies for 4 or 5 years, and I know multiple people who have stayed at Google for 10 years. Yeah, but Google isn't representative of the industry as a whole. > I'm not making an argument. You said, "Counteroffers are poison for both the employee and the company." That's a very strong position you're taking. > I'm saying that trust (rightly or wrongly) sometimes seems like some…

> You said, "Counteroffers are poison for both the employee and the company." That's a very strong position you're taking.

My opinion is that counteroffers are poison, generally because some employers or employees have unrealistic views on what loyalty means, and it always turns out badly for the employee.

> This is true, but inapplicable to the decision of whether to take a counteroffer.

If the employer, management, and employee have a good, realistic and mature view on employee/employer relationships and trust, that is correct. However, it's fairly common (especially for new managers) for them to think of employees looking for other jobs as a personal affront, and will make your life miserable. Life sometimes isn't as tidy as it should be.

Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#357

Post by st3v3r »

wtracy wrote: post #345
st3v3r wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That median salary includes fast food workers and other low/non skilled positions. Comparing our profession against that is dishonest.

You completely lost me. We weren't discussing the median skilled wage, we were discussing the median wage. The median wage is the median of all wages. Trying to redefine words in the middle of an argument strikes me as dishonest.

I didn't redefine anything. I pointed out that the "median wage of all wages" does not add anything in the discussion when we're talking about skilled labor. Trying to compare skilled labor wages to all labor wages of course is going to make it seem like the skilled labor is getting paid too much. That's what's dishonest.

Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#358

Post by st3v3r »

lukewink wrote: post #336
st3v3r wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When has something being illegal stopped a company from doing something that could save and/or make it more money?

When the penalty of a lawsuit outweighs the money gained from such an action.

You're forgetting the likelihood that such a lawsuit will be brought. Which isn't very high.

Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#359

Post by imagist »

jimmywanger wrote: post #356
imagist wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I dispute that. I generally stay at companies for 4 or 5 years, and I know multiple people who have stayed at Google for 10 years. Yeah, but Google isn't representative of the industry as a whole. > I'm not making an argument. You said, "Counteroffers are poison for both the employee and the company." That's a very strong position you're taking. > I'm saying that trust (rightly or wrongly) sometimes seems like some…

> You said, "Counteroffers are poison for both the employee and the company." That's a very strong position you're taking. My opinion is that counteroffers are poison, generally because some employers or employees have unrealistic views on what loyalty means, and it always turns out badly for the employee. > This is true, but inapplicable to the decision of whether to take a counteroffer. If the employer, management,…

> However, it's fairly common (especially for new managers) for them to think of employees looking for other jobs as a personal affront, and will make your life miserable.

Why would someone who takes my looking for other jobs as a personal affront make a counteroffer?

Re: Never accept a counter-offer

#360

Post by shshhdhs »

CydeWeys wrote: post #337
softawre wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So...what do you think are the right questions?

It depends on what you value most in a working relationship. What I want in a boss isn't necessarily what you want in a boss. General questions that might apply to most people would include things like "What kind of working hours do people on your team keep", "How do you help build the careers of people on your team", "Why did you choose this project and what do you find exciting about it", "If you were to start this…

Is this a consulting role like Accenture? (Asking because not all companies let managers choose their projects?)
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