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From Syria to Sweden – 200 voices on escaping the war

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Re: From Syria to Sweden – 200 voices on escaping the war

#51

Post by tajen »

return0 wrote: post #5

These sentimental pieces do not help. At this point it's fair to say that europeans know the struggle of (legitimate) refugees. The actual solution is to end the war in Syria, instead of waiting for the rest of the country to flee, and then boast about how humane we are.

I've always considered moving populations was a crime against humanity because it stems so many problems. The UN and the UCJ (The Haye) doesn't assume this, but I wonder whether they've ever considered it. Whether it's Syrians, various places in Africa, Palestinians, it's often at the root of many wars.

Also, French people think it's our duty to "export peace" to Syria. It's costing us €10-15bn (source: Our defense cost is €32bn per year), on top of €6bn new policemen recruited after the attacks. It's €900 per year per person in age of working when our average yearly revenue is only €22k. We're just choked. I mean either the UN coordinates the attack and the cost against Syria, either we shouldn't be there.

It seems like the whole world is involved anyway: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_involvement_in_the_Syr...

Re: From Syria to Sweden – 200 voices on escaping the war

#52

Post by vixen99 »

gambiting wrote: post #36
DominikR wrote: post #24

I read the other day that Sweden had to cancel the Earth Hour event where they turn of lights for an hour because the last time they did in 2015 many gang rapes occurred which were committed by refugees. (even 12 year olds were raped) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Hour#2016 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3499108/Earth-hour-c... That's what you get when you let young women decide on anything related to…

No offence, but dailymail links should be banned on HN. It's just a vile website that is full of BS on literally any topic it touches. Whatever gets them most clicks/sold newspapers, basically.

And at what point some time ago did you decide it's vile or do you check it out everyday to ensure your assessment is up-to-date? Get down to specifics and your statement ('it's just a vile ...) falls to bits.

So, I wonder, which articles from today's Mail go into your 'vile' category? Aside from the human interest stories (I have a surprise for you. It's not a mainline news source!) there are a few articles by agenda-driven columnists and you don't have to read them in either the right-leaning Mail or similar pieces in the left-leaning Guardian. Are those columnists the irritating source of your vitriol?

Re: From Syria to Sweden – 200 voices on escaping the war

#53

Post by petriw »

barpet wrote: post #48
kartan wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should Europe feel responsible for these people? Because they are human beings. I think than that's more than enough. BTW Europe has a lot of really big problems with Banks. And that has a lot bigger impact that anything else in our economy. That's also something interesting to talk about.

So your fellow europeans are not human beings ? So we save one and let the other starve because we do not hear about it or we do not want to ? Are not you a bit hypocritical ?

In which European country do citizens starve because of immigration?

Re: From Syria to Sweden – 200 voices on escaping the war

#54

Post by krona »

DominikR wrote: post #45
krona wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have relatives in Sweden and I find the disparity between what is reported by external (non-Swedish) media about events happening in Sweden and what the Swedish mainstream media itself reports is deeply disturbing.

What do your relatives in Sweden say about this?

The Media's complete silence on important issues is slowly undermining democracy in Sweden.

Re: From Syria to Sweden – 200 voices on escaping the war

#55

Post by petriw »

DominikR wrote: post #38
gambiting wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offence, but dailymail links should be banned on HN. It's just a vile website that is full of BS on literally any topic it touches. Whatever gets them most clicks/sold newspapers, basically.

Okay, let's just censor news that you don't like. I on the other hand live in a EU country that is the main target for these refugees and I can tell you this stuff (in particular rapes) is real and you calling it BS isn't going to change the reality of what is going on here.

Daily Mail isn't news, it's poorly researched clickbait.

Rape is horrible and I'm certain immigrants also rape, just as the natives do. But let's not kid ourselves, at least in my home country Sweden the number of sexual offences (including rape) have not increased significantly over time despite decades of scaremongering news about them, including on swedish state tv.

I base this on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden#Victim_surveys And in Swedish more recent: https://www.bra.se/bra/brott-och-statistik/valdtakt-och-sexu...

We'll see what the numbers for 2015 and 2016 say, but I somehow doubt they'll show a country in free fall despite 163k asylum seekers in 2015.

Re: From Syria to Sweden – 200 voices on escaping the war

#56

Post by DominikR »

kartan wrote: post #44
barpet wrote: post #42

Why should Europe feel responsible for these people ? Europe has a ton of problems with roma people and the poor. Why should a newly integrated Syrian cook should earn more than a middle aged women in Romania ?

> Why should Europe feel responsible for these people? Because they are human beings. I think than that's more than enough. BTW Europe has a lot of really big problems with Banks. And that has a lot bigger impact that anything else in our economy. That's also something interesting to talk about.

> Because they are human beings. I think than that's more than enough.

No it is not. Everyone is responsible for him or herself.

Why should I give up my resources to feed people that have been indoctrinated by an aggressive, violent and fundamentally dysfunctional culture whose only export seems to be either oil or terrorism.

We often had refugees coming in here but I've never seen a group of refugees that hates us so much and disregards all our laws. They must literally think we are subhumans or stupid because they didn't seem to deal drugs and rape at will in their own countries.

Someone please explain to me what on earth they must be thinking to come here as guests, be fed and housed by us for free just to then go out and rape local women and children.

We had a case here where a "refugee" raped a 10 year old boy and later claimed in court (with a smirk on his face) that it was a sexual emergency. He didn't have sex for 6 months. In his mind this was a valid excuse.

Re: From Syria to Sweden – 200 voices on escaping the war

#57

Post by Yetanfou »

petriw wrote: post #41
krona wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have relatives in Sweden and I find the disparity between what is reported by external (non-Swedish) media about events happening in Sweden and what the Swedish mainstream media itself reports is deeply disturbing.

I have relatives living in the USA and the news they see from Sweden seems to make them think Sweden is descending into chaos. Their imagination had run quite wild.

Parts of Sweden are descending into chaos, some parts (Rosengård in Malmö. Biskopsgården in Göteborg, Järva in Stockholm, etc - these are the 'no-go zones') already have. The news you get to see in the US and elsewhere often comes from these areas. Elsewhere in Sweden things are more like they used to be, although the problem with 'utanförskapsområder' (areas where a parallel society takes shape, areas which are no longer part of Swedish society) is growing. This is caused in large part by the fact that migrants are allowed to choose where they want to live. They often choose to live with others from their home countries and/or cultures, which leads to areas becoming dominated by non-Swedish and for the largest part non-western culture, which in turn leads to the remaining native Swedes moving out either voluntarily or being harassed until they leave. It is these areas which can turn into no-go zones where gangs rule the streets, where police can not operate without being harassed or literally attacked, where both ambulances and fire trucks get bombarded with stones by 'angry youths'.

In other words, these areas end up in a spiral of violence and destruction, leading to an exodus of people - native Swedes as well as well-integrated migrants - who are fed up with the violence. The ones who remain are either those who cause the problems or those who can not afford to move for whatever reason.

Re: From Syria to Sweden – 200 voices on escaping the war

#58

Post by kbart »

petriw wrote: post #55
DominikR wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, let's just censor news that you don't like. I on the other hand live in a EU country that is the main target for these refugees and I can tell you this stuff (in particular rapes) is real and you calling it BS isn't going to change the reality of what is going on here.

Daily Mail isn't news, it's poorly researched clickbait. Rape is horrible and I'm certain immigrants also rape, just as the natives do. But let's not kid ourselves, at least in my home country Sweden the number of sexual offences (including rape) have not increased significantly over time despite decades of scaremongering news about them, including on swedish state tv. I base this on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra…

Statistics is easily tweaked or faked. There are already many cases of police in Germany and Sweden miss-reporting or covering up sexual offences by immigrants.

1. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-05-03/german-coverup-scan...

2. http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/01/its-not-only-germany-that...

3. http://dailycaller.com/2016/04/08/german-cops-we-were-ordere...

Re: From Syria to Sweden – 200 voices on escaping the war

#59

Post by gambiting »

barpet wrote: post #50
gambiting wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure that people who escaped war don't give a shit about having papers - they just want to be treated like people, not dogs, so if you put them in a camp with horrible conditions it's only natural that some of them will go somewhere else, whether they have papers or not. I still don't see how my original statement is incorrect.

So it's okay for them to break the rules because they have escaped the war and at the same time it's wrong for the countries obeying the rules and laws to protect the borders. Because....reasons...

I never said it's ok for them to break the rules or wrong for countries to protect their borders. The original question was "why do refugees go all the way to sweden, instead of staying in the first eu country". I've tried explaining why, not defending them.

Re: From Syria to Sweden – 200 voices on escaping the war

#60

Post by petriw »

kbart wrote: post #58
petriw wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Daily Mail isn't news, it's poorly researched clickbait. Rape is horrible and I'm certain immigrants also rape, just as the natives do. But let's not kid ourselves, at least in my home country Sweden the number of sexual offences (including rape) have not increased significantly over time despite decades of scaremongering news about them, including on swedish state tv. I base this on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra…

Statistics is easily tweaked or faked. There are already many cases of police in Germany and Sweden miss-reporting or covering up sexual offences by immigrants. 1. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-05-03/german-coverup-scan... 2. http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/01/its-not-only-germany-that... 3. http://dailycaller.com/2016/04/08/german-cops-we-were-ordere...

Statistics can never simply be read from a police database or similar. It takes serious work by good researchers to compile the data and interpret it. This is also why you can't compare many crime statistics between countries, rape being a fairly typical one.

The simple truth is that up until now no one actually cared and that is why it went unreported. Heck, the new years eve sexual offences will probably disappear among all the other sexual offences that go on every day that no one apparently cares about.

Festival groping is hardly a new phenomenon, maybe the new years eve thing is new but was it a temporary problem or is it a long term issue? No one actually knows yet.

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