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Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

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Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#301

Post by eanzenberg »

hueving wrote: post #132
st3v3r wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're talking like the person that was described was talking, I absolutely would take away from their success, especially because they've never had to worry about any of the stuff that someone who doesn't come from means has to worry about. Don't get me wrong; finding success is hard, and whenever someone does find it, it should be celebrated. But those that do find it shouldn't discount the struggles of those w…

>I absolutely would take away from their success Why? Because they are an asshole about it? That doesn't reduce their success in any way. If they have offset the losses of their previous endeavors, they have provided a net gain and it's still a success.

Because a lot of humanity wants to shit on others' successes. It's why it's mostly futile to seek outward validation.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#302

Post by tomrod »

allovera wrote: post #87
mixmastamyk wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, now you can forgive yourself and be proud of what you've accomplished and will continue to.

I find the opposite - I'm deeply ashamed about growing up in poverty and rarely admit it. When it comes up, I find it creates distance between myself and my co workers. They get uncomfortable and I always feel like they think I am judging them somehow. I don't seem poor anymore: thousands of dollars on dental care, I dress OK, I have a fairly polished accent now. I don't talk to most of my family. My old friends live…

I came from a poorer background too. To this day I find it hard for me to connect with people. I get the anxiety too, and have been spared the severe ptsd. I don't have any sage words of advice or opinions, just wanted you to know you're not alone.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#303

Post by taneq »

nugget wrote: post #96
ryandrake wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I knew someone who was so aggressively proud of their success, having founded and grown a successful business. He'd talk your ear off about how people like him were the ones adding value to society and how unsuccessful people are just lazy and don't try hard enough or don't take enough risks, or are just deadbeats, and how successful, hard working people are punished with taxes--you know, the standard soapbox speech.…

> Going from $0 to $1M is almost impossible--going from $1M to $2M is almost inevitable. I know plenty of people who inherited money and blew it all. Very, very few people, even children from ''rich'' families, have an ''infinite money cushion''. People who come from poverty or communities rampant with discrimination often times have to work harder for opportunities. But hard work is hard work, and there is fierce co…

I didn't read that as "if you have $1M you'll almost certainly go to $2M", so much as "if your business has already earned $1M in profit then it's almost certain to continue to earn another $1M in profit". And likewise, it's not talking about having $1M in savings from a lifetime of hard work.

Think of a business as being like an engine. Until you get the engine started and running under its own power, it's just costing you time and effort and money. Once it's running, it generates money at an accelerating rate. The $1M cutoff here is a proxy for "the engine is running."

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#304

Post by simplemath »

hueving wrote: post #252
st3v3r wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they're an asshole about it, and because they're ignoring the pure luck advantages they had which made their success possible. And it doesn't matter if they've offset the losses of their previous tries, they still took multiple tries (in and of itself not a problem), which is something most people don't get.

With that attitude, nobody could ever take any credit for success because there is someone else that had it harder. "Warren Buffet didn't do anything impressive because he grew up with his parents." What a petty way to live.

thats both a false dichotomy and a strawman.

Well played

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#305

Post by [deleted] »

Jtsummers wrote: post #161
ap22213 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get what you're saying - but the reality is that globalization is to blame. Years ago, if one was born ambitious and able, with enough luck they'd get relatively 'rich' and most likely stop when they hit that point. Nowadays, the same type of person has to accumulate a much larger amount to feel any satisfaction. And, it doesn't help that those with wealth have clustered together.

Can you give us a hint as to where this place is? I believe that you believe this, and it may be true, but the rest of us are having a hard time figuring out where this place is that the upper class is half a billion dollars, and tens of millions only makes you middle class. Again, within a city or perhaps some particularly small but remarkably wealthy country, maybe. But which one?

[deleted]

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#306

Post by wallace_f »

ryandrake wrote: post #26
trjordan wrote: post #3

I wish I could remember where I read this, but I once heard it explained to me as this: It's easy to deride the journey of the rich college student: 80-hour internships at Goldman Sachs, unpaid positions in government, etc. But, the things that are done by successful people are hard, as hard as walking a tightrope. The difference is that rich students walk this tightrope over a bed of pillows. Poor students walk it o…

I knew someone who was so aggressively proud of their success, having founded and grown a successful business. He'd talk your ear off about how people like him were the ones adding value to society and how unsuccessful people are just lazy and don't try hard enough or don't take enough risks, or are just deadbeats, and how successful, hard working people are punished with taxes--you know, the standard soapbox speech.…

>He'd talk your ear off about how people like him were the ones adding value to society

To take this sentence slightly out of context: There's nothing wrong with providing a service people find useful and are willing to pay you for, however this moral high ground is extremely abrasive to the soul. If someone really cared about "adding value to society," or the future of human welfare -- human rights are on the decline in our own country. Journalists are being openly, publicly and illegally prosecuted (Pete Santilli), peaceful protesters are being removed with military-style raids (Dakota pipeline protests), and whistle-blowers are being hunted by our government for revealing unconstitutional, illegal government surveillance (Snowden), while our government funds illegal wars (Syria), through arming of totalitarian and human-rights-oppressing regimes (SA), while also funding other human-rights-oppressing foreign states with funds equal to that of the Manhattan Project, adjusted for inflation (criticizing which country this is feels like a thought crime though). This all strikes me as more fitting of a nation state we associate with corruption than the USA, but we're all too busy with our day jobs to consider how hard people fought for what we take for granted, and how easily it can and is being taken away. There's a lot that is great about the USA, but as the 2016 elections draw closer and nothing seems to surprise me anymore, every time I hear this argument it just really bothers me because it feels like nobody seems to give a shit about actually "adding value to society."

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#307

Post by hysan »

nathanasmith wrote: post #279
sn9 wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How you frame the question can produce vastly different responses. That said, I'd say the perception of Americans being selfish has more to do with our terrible electoral system in which the incentives are such that we elect politicians that, in aggregate, portray a more selfish representation of our populace than really is there. This is how you get polls saying large majorities of Americans believe in Issue X, but…

>>How you frame the question can produce vastly different responses. Here are some of the questions on the GSS: In our society everyone must look out for himself. It is of little use to unite with others and fight for one's goals in politics or in unions. 67.7 percent disagreed It is the responsibility of government to meet everyone's needs, even in case of sickness, poverty, unemployment, and old age. 57.3 percent a…

That first statement is hard to agree with because it takes an all-or-nothing stance in a broad manner (must + little use). Most people will disagree because there is probably a "I don't 100% agree" reaction to it. You'd probably get the same reaction going in the opposite direction.

In our society everyone must work together to succeed. It is of little use to try and effect change alone as one person cannot make a difference in politics or work.

Meanwhile, the other two statements are much more direct on the stance being questioned. The examples are the only open ended part as interpretations can differ between people, but they are still clear enough to get the intended meaning across.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#308

Post by imtringued »

wang_li wrote: post #209
nugget wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Going from $0 to $1M is almost impossible--going from $1M to $2M is almost inevitable. I know plenty of people who inherited money and blew it all. Very, very few people, even children from ''rich'' families, have an ''infinite money cushion''. People who come from poverty or communities rampant with discrimination often times have to work harder for opportunities. But hard work is hard work, and there is fierce co…

(0% of families dissipate their wealth within three generations. This suggests that there is a constant up welling of people who accumulate wealth. The proposition that there is some fixed group of rich people sitting at the top is absurd. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014241278873246624045783346...

The median inheritance is $50k. Is it possible that very large inheritances are more likely to keep accumulating?

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#309

Post by bootload »

icantdrive55 wrote: post #266
hueving wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard work is requisite, not satisfactory. You can dig ditches in your own yard for 14 hours a day and you aren't going to be successful. Similarly, you can start a business with your $1 million inherited wealth, but it has an extremely high probability of failing without hard work. >Tell that to the kid making iPhones in the Foxconn facility. I'm not even sure what your point is. GP was pointing out that competition…

In software/technology developement--yes. I grew up with rich kids. I live in Marin County. The place your founders will end up in, if they make it big. The rich kids, I know, didn't work that hard. Some didn't work at all. Even as a slight insider, they all seemed to be just having a good time, and partying a lot more than myself. They were all set up in nice houses/condos. They all had nice cars. They had the nice…

" Real success was family money, and marrying right. He didn't work very hard."

Great point.

There is a good historical example you can see this in the of the current BBC adaption of Winston Grahams series, Poldark. [0] Contrasting aristocratic families surviving by Name (old money and scheming) or by Wit (entrepreneurial graft and hard work) in the 18th century UK, Cornwall.

[0] BFI Q&A with writer Debbie Horsfield and director Ed Bazalgette discussing adaption and research. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsCKYX9-ntw

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#310

Post by enraged_camel »

timedoctor wrote: post #292
enraged_camel wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>I did not agree at all. In my experience it's much easier to make 1 million then it is to invest 1 million and make another million. Really. Let's hear your formula. Because the stock market returns 7% per year on average after inflation, which means it takes about 10.2 years for $1 million to become $2 million. What's even better is that this happens behind the scenes - you don't have to do any work for it. So wha…

There is no guarantee the stock market will return money in the future. The past does not equal the future and in fact some experts predict that the stock market will return around 3% on average going forward. Also even if the average return was 7% most people have achieved much less than that. Obviously it's less effort to invest in the stock market so if you're talking about the amount of effort then yes investing…

>>There is no guarantee the stock market will return money in the future.

It will always return money as long as it exists. How much it will return is debatable.

>>Obviously it's less effort to invest in the stock market so if you're talking about the amount of effort then yes investing is easier

Uh, you said, "In my experience it's much easier to make 1 million then it is to invest 1 million and make another million."

What is this about, if not effort?

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