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Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

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Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#201

Post by OliverJones »

dtran wrote: post #160
trjordan wrote: post #3

I wish I could remember where I read this, but I once heard it explained to me as this: It's easy to deride the journey of the rich college student: 80-hour internships at Goldman Sachs, unpaid positions in government, etc. But, the things that are done by successful people are hard, as hard as walking a tightrope. The difference is that rich students walk this tightrope over a bed of pillows. Poor students walk it o…

Author here. Thanks for reading and for sharing this analogy—it very aptly captures the sentiment. Thanks for that. I just wanted to say that not only was this post extremely difficult to write, but I really hesitated to publish it. When we start talking about privilege or lack-thereof, the conversation generally veers towards comparisons, which is only natural. If you grew up more fortunate than someone else, you sa…

Glad you published it, Mr. Tran. Thanks!

I happen to volunteer at a drop-in center in my town's family public housing project. As it happened, I saw your article shortly after my colleagues and I had wrangled $1000 for a poor immigrant kid on short notice.

It was a tuition payment for a program for high school kids at one of our local world-renowned medical schools.

So, I was able to send your article to my colleagues, the kid, and her mother saying "this is why we do what we do."

Now we have to support this kid while she participates in this program. Hopefully she'll talk to us about what she's going through, and put any shame aside.

Almost anybody reading this can do something to help open up opportunity. It doesn't have to be a grand gesture requiring megabucks. If you don't have time to get organized, give some money to the scholarship fund at your local community college. If you do have time to get organized, call the guidance counselor at your local high school and ask if there's a support program for first-generation college-bound students or something similar.

Who knows? Maybe you'll meet somebody who ends up taking a trip to Sweden one day to collect a Nobel Prize. You can say "I knew her when."

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#202

Post by BigJeffeRonaldo »

gthtjtkt wrote: post #121

Just to offer a slight counter-point re: privilege. Where I grew up, telling someone "I want to go to vocational school instead of college" was no different from telling them "I want to be a prostitute when I grow up". Hell, even joining any form of armed service was extremely frowned upon. In many cases, this led to otherwise bright, gifted people becoming "failures" because they were too afraid to do what they want…

Being against military service sounds like the 110iq librarian in a town full of low 95 iqers. Some of he smartest kids I know (many from very good backgrounds) went west point then 11b and now are flying up management fast track in some prestigious industries. Many kids from poorer backgrounds have also done the same, but they weren't in my peer group. Aristocrats and elite political families send their kids to do military service. Sounds like middle class +1 standard deviation nonsense attitude was prevalent there

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#203

Post by projektir »

zo1 wrote: post #38
trjordan wrote: post #3

I wish I could remember where I read this, but I once heard it explained to me as this: It's easy to deride the journey of the rich college student: 80-hour internships at Goldman Sachs, unpaid positions in government, etc. But, the things that are done by successful people are hard, as hard as walking a tightrope. The difference is that rich students walk this tightrope over a bed of pillows. Poor students walk it o…

That is all the more reason to praise and appreciate those individuals that come out ahead, despite such circumstances. But I would say it's not a reason to excuse and attribute poor performance due to difficult circumstance, which is generally the type of thing such a story/explanation is used for. And it's unfortunate that it's used for such a narrow use-case, when it could rather be used to inspire.

If I think circumstances are the problem, I'm much more interested in addressing the circumstances than trying to inspire somebody. The one special inspired case is the narrow use-case, not the other way around.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#204

Post by projektir »

simplemath wrote: post #80
tajen wrote: post #73

I'm in France and I sometimes notice that USA articles focus only on underpriviledged talent . Why only the talents? It's a bit like rape is fought against, except in prisons because they're lower-grade citizen. Or like articles describing unwarranted violence from the SWAT teams: "The family was playing poker, they got busted for illegal gaming, 3 died" will trigger fewer reaction than "The SWAT team killed the dog.…

Empathy is a dying sentiment in this country. We've made the horrible mistake of conflating "success" with morality; i.e. "the poor are just lazy", or "this wealthy person is automatically a paragon of good judgement"

And then we've compounded the mistake by conflating morality with correctness.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#205

Post by projektir »

EdSharkey wrote: post #169
tajen wrote: post #73

I'm in France and I sometimes notice that USA articles focus only on underpriviledged talent . Why only the talents? It's a bit like rape is fought against, except in prisons because they're lower-grade citizen. Or like articles describing unwarranted violence from the SWAT teams: "The family was playing poker, they got busted for illegal gaming, 3 died" will trigger fewer reaction than "The SWAT team killed the dog.…

I guess I'm an old fashioned US citizen and resist your sentiment. I'm of the opinion that if you grab a random adult, inspect them, ask them about their lives, look at their health, abilities, check out their finances, family, and all the rest - then you'll come to the conclusion that, for the vast majority, they themselves are best able to take care of themselves. "Our civilization needs to take care of everyone" i…

It's best for a person to take care of themselves, but it's foolish to expect that when they never got the resources, whether that's financial, mental, educational...

> Homelessness should be declared illegal so that civil liberties aren't an issue when we force these people to work or become wards of the state if they are not capable.

I think that's called slavery. That seems like the direct opposite of giving people agency and, if anything, the attitude that created all these problems in the first place.

USSR tried outlawing homelessness at one point, I think, but there wasn't exactly a job shortage or someone trying to make money off of the desperate.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#206

Post by dleslie »

ythl wrote: post #178
dleslie wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is why Basic Income is the future; it doesn't help those with a bed of pillows to rely on, but it provides a bed of sod to those currently wary of spikes.

What about people that squander their BI? We need safety nets below the safety nets... At some point shouldn't we let people fail?

If an individual is unable to survive on a minimal fixed income then they are almost certainly in need of other social services.

People can still fail while on BI; it won't protect you from losing your home, for instance. BI makes failing just a little less devastating.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#207

Post by ap22213 »

ryandrake wrote: post #198
ap22213 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Loudoun county, which is ranked as the highest income county in the US.

I've lived in Loudoun county, VA. Your characterization of middle class in that place is totally inaccurate. There are probably less than 50 square miles on earth (if that) where a net worth of $24MM places you in the middle class.

Well then you'd know that Loudoun is a large county. I'm sure you lived in the eastern part - probably ashburn where they build dense complexes of 450k townhouses that span as far as the eye can see - to house all the 'creative class' workers who make 100k a year and feel good about themselves.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#208

Post by krapht »

bsder wrote: post #151
CM30 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always wondered why we don't just get rid of private lawyers and legal teams. That way, no one has an advantage or disadvantage. Even the wealthiest get one guy chosen by the court and no other assistance whatsoever and we see lots of rich kids going to prison as a result.

> I've always wondered why we don't just get rid of private lawyers and legal teams. Because bringing the quality of someone else's defense down does not solve the fundamental problems of the justice system. The problem is that the justice system is unfair to the poor, PERIOD . And we need to fix that. The problem is not putting more rich kids in jail. In my opinion, the better change is to remove things like prosecu…

That's a poor opinion. I wonder if a prosecutor without that discretion would've ever been able to make a civil rights charge stick in 60s Alabama in any majority-white county.

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#209

Post by wang_li »

nugget wrote: post #96
ryandrake wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I knew someone who was so aggressively proud of their success, having founded and grown a successful business. He'd talk your ear off about how people like him were the ones adding value to society and how unsuccessful people are just lazy and don't try hard enough or don't take enough risks, or are just deadbeats, and how successful, hard working people are punished with taxes--you know, the standard soapbox speech.…

> Going from $0 to $1M is almost impossible--going from $1M to $2M is almost inevitable. I know plenty of people who inherited money and blew it all. Very, very few people, even children from ''rich'' families, have an ''infinite money cushion''. People who come from poverty or communities rampant with discrimination often times have to work harder for opportunities. But hard work is hard work, and there is fierce co…

(0% of families dissipate their wealth within three generations. This suggests that there is a constant up welling of people who accumulate wealth. The proposition that there is some fixed group of rich people sitting at the top is absurd.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014241278873246624045783346...

Re: Lost Diamonds: How our current system is failing underprivileged talent

#210

Post by timedoctor »

ryandrake wrote: post #26
trjordan wrote: post #3

I wish I could remember where I read this, but I once heard it explained to me as this: It's easy to deride the journey of the rich college student: 80-hour internships at Goldman Sachs, unpaid positions in government, etc. But, the things that are done by successful people are hard, as hard as walking a tightrope. The difference is that rich students walk this tightrope over a bed of pillows. Poor students walk it o…

I knew someone who was so aggressively proud of their success, having founded and grown a successful business. He'd talk your ear off about how people like him were the ones adding value to society and how unsuccessful people are just lazy and don't try hard enough or don't take enough risks, or are just deadbeats, and how successful, hard working people are punished with taxes--you know, the standard soapbox speech.…

I did not agree at all. In my experience it's much easier to make 1 million then it is to invest 1 million and make another million.

Also there are many startups that require zero investment capital and if you do not have a family and you minimise your expenses you can leave on very very little. If you do have a family it's more difficult but still possible.

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