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Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

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Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#41

Post by davidw »

slantedview wrote: post #39
davidw wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> American competitiveness is a joke. Not really. "It's complicated" and there are many aspects to it. US health care is terrible, for instance, in terms of costs/benefits. The startup I worked for in Italy dedicated all of 0 person-hours to health care or health insurance stuff because it's none of their business . Big advantage. OTOH, the public pension system in Italy is pretty creaky and I would not trust it a lo…

Not sure if you confused my comment with someone else's. I never said it wasn't complicated, I said it's a joke, for exactly the reasons you mention among others.

It's not "a joke", though: it's a very competitive country in many ways. Facile comparisons of one or two aspects don't do the subject justice.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#42

Post by Swizec »

humanrebar wrote: post #29
Swizec wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that regard, is it really fair that the US has a single Olympics team? Or a single world-level anything team?

There are completely different purposes for the Olympic games and a ranking of economies. We-have-a-different-flag is perfectly fine for the purposes of friendly competition. Something with more justification is appropriate for discussing economies, especially since the boundaries of 'an economy' are naturally nebulous.

> There are completely different purposes for the Olympic games and a ranking of economies.

Isn't success at international competition largely a factor of financial investment into a particular sport? Arguably the US being the world's biggest economy, would also give them the world's best trained athletes, the best trainers, the best training facilities and so on.

Many (most?) sports have specific checks and guards in place to minimize the effect of money on team success, but that only goes so far.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#43

Post by cmdrfred »

davidw wrote: post #31
slantedview wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether talking about the US as a whole or any particular state, we don't compare to the modern European countries. One important way we don't compare is that healthcare and retirement costs are a massive drag on our economy. Just an hour ago I received an e-mail from my employer letting me know that their 401k matching is decreasing 1% next year, but that they're cool with it because it's still "competitive". The re…

> American competitiveness is a joke. Not really. "It's complicated" and there are many aspects to it. US health care is terrible, for instance, in terms of costs/benefits. The startup I worked for in Italy dedicated all of 0 person-hours to health care or health insurance stuff because it's none of their business . Big advantage. OTOH, the public pension system in Italy is pretty creaky and I would not trust it a lo…

>"At will" employment in the US is way, way more flexible than the kind of system they have in Italy where you'd pretty much have to murder someone while on the clock to get fired. Definitely a win for business.

I agree, it could be a win for employees as well if we changed some of the social norms. One example, change "2 weeks notice" to "give as much notice as they would pay if they laid you off" (In the majority of jobs currently, none) and employers would start offering severance packages again.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#44

Post by threesixandnine »

zxcvvcxz wrote: post #25

Interesting, can somebody remind me of these Swiss-based world changing startups that I somehow can't recall?

Startups are only a small part of the economy and majority of world changing stuff happens outside shiny startup world.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#45

Post by davidw »

cmdrfred wrote: post #43
davidw wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> American competitiveness is a joke. Not really. "It's complicated" and there are many aspects to it. US health care is terrible, for instance, in terms of costs/benefits. The startup I worked for in Italy dedicated all of 0 person-hours to health care or health insurance stuff because it's none of their business . Big advantage. OTOH, the public pension system in Italy is pretty creaky and I would not trust it a lo…

>"At will" employment in the US is way, way more flexible than the kind of system they have in Italy where you'd pretty much have to murder someone while on the clock to get fired. Definitely a win for business. I agree, it could be a win for employees as well if we changed some of the social norms. One example, change "2 weeks notice" to "give as much notice as they would pay if they laid you off" (In the majority o…

It's kind of a complex subject in its own right. One thing that happens with employees in someplace like Italy, is once they get that Permanent Position, they can be very, very reticent to let it go, even for something that is more interesting or has a better work environment or whatever. This has costs for everyone involved.

My own view is that making employers directly responsible for 'social welfare', rather than simply taxing them and providing money for the unemployed through the government, or some such, is suboptimal. If I'm not mistaken, places like Denmark take the latter approach: easy hiring/firing, high taxes, and a lot of benefits. Not everyone might like it, but it seems more efficient than making it impossible to fire people who are not really contributing much.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#46

Post by tonfa »

guest wrote: post #15
jahnu wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the cost of living proportional to competitiveness? Anyway, it seems like a mystery to me why tech firms like Google set up shop in small expensive Zurich instead of say cheaper, bigger Barcelona or Vienna, for example. I'd love to know what the incentives are for them.

"Anyway, it seems like a mystery to me why tech firms like Google set up shop in small expensive Zurich instead of say cheaper, bigger Barcelona or Vienna, for example." The reason is simple: tax-evation and the like, Swiss is well known for it around Europe. That it hasn't been dealt with is not strange since we live in the age of hidden plutocracy (trading outposts and the like exist in many countries for the rich…

> The reason is simple: tax-evation and the like

Source? Switzerland is famous for its private banking sector and it used to be easy to hide assets for individuals (with FACTA and tax data sharing, I don't think it's as popular now, or at least the minimum amount required is way higher since banks don't want the risk). Unlike Ireland, I'm not aware of Switzerland being commonly used to reduce corporate tax (at least in IT).

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#47

Post by baddox »

Swizec wrote: post #16
noobermin wrote: post #5

I always feel like it is unfair how we place different European nations in same category as the US in these rankings or whatever, and for the US, we average over all the states in the US. As homogenous the US is, different states have different economies, different laws, in some cases, some slight but important cultural differences. Is it really fair to say have the US compete on terms of "competitiveness" or in othe…

In that regard, is it really fair that the US has a single Olympics team? Or a single world-level anything team?

If anything, the fact that the US has a lot of advantages for athletes (high incomes, nice facilities, etc.) means that grouping all those athletes together for the Olympics probably disadvantages individual American athletes, because there's more competition for Olympic qualification. If each US state competed separately in the Olympics, how many more medals do you suppose that would all have received in swimming, track and field, gymnastics, etc.?

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#48

Post by href »

vidoc wrote: post #28
sschueller wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why Zürich which has a relatively high tax rate compared to for example Zug?

Zurich has an international airport, Zug doesn't

The extra 30 minutes of travel hardly matter. I'd say it's the fact that Zürich has more available talent.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#49

Post by oblio »

oh_sigh wrote: post #36
brotherjerky wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that mean you should breakout London from the rest of the UK? Frankfurt from Germany?

Maybe, since NY state has 3x the area, 2.5x the population as Switzerland. It seems crazy to lump Mississippi and North Dakota in the same basket as NYC

By the same criteria we shouldn't talk about Russia but about Moscow or Sankt Petersburg or not about China but about Beijing or Shanghai.

Every countries has regions which are less well off. But most comparisons lump everything up. Otherwise madness ensues trying to create "proper" economic divisions...

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#50

Post by linksnapzz »

whybroke wrote: post #30
noobermin wrote: post #5

I always feel like it is unfair how we place different European nations in same category as the US in these rankings or whatever, and for the US, we average over all the states in the US. As homogenous the US is, different states have different economies, different laws, in some cases, some slight but important cultural differences. Is it really fair to say have the US compete on terms of "competitiveness" or in othe…

Those negative cultural attitudes that can hold back a vast country packed with resource that has oceans separating it form two world wars maybe should be fixed. Otherwise one must wonder what is the point in remaining a single nation if the end result is always less happiness, education and "competitiveness".

There is no point. Or rather, as originally established, the Federalist intent was to allow states significantly more freedom to direct their own affairs. Sadly, this is no longer the case.

The point of keeping the US as a single nation is to further the interests of those who are aligned with FEDGOV, not for the education or happiness or prosperity of ordinary people.

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