Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#561

Post by mzw_mzw » Tue, Sep 27, 2016, 11:16 PM UTC

mintplant wrote: post #258

mikeash wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're free to advocate for other things, but most of the critics aren't doing this, they're just shitting all over this idea and then making vague waves in the general direction of other ideas. Further, why so much focus on this particular billionaire, who at least is focusing pretty hard on driving progress even if you don't agree on the precise direction, and ignoring all the ones just wasting it, or being activel…

> Further, why so much focus on this particular billionaire, Personally, I'm worried by the fact that it's a billionaire driving this, nevermind which one in particular. If and when SpaceX colonizes Mars, what sort of life will the people up there live? Will it be a Musk dictatorship? A corporate fiefdom? Rich people remaking society in their own image wasn't exactly the space dream I grew up with.

There's a weird sort of fear of potential corporate dystopias that just ignores all the actual government dystopias that have existed throughout history. Plenty of government colonies were dictatorships, fiefdoms, attempts at building bizarre and broken societies. Many people reading this live in nations that originated in exactly that fashion.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#562

Post by throwanem » Tue, Sep 27, 2016, 11:16 PM UTC

goatlover wrote: post #465

mikeash wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, do you have something against goats?!

I know, right? Maybe we can engineer a hardy Martian goat that can eat the algae that puts oxygen into the air. Martian goats produce C02 and fertilize the soil. Now you have a source of dairy and meat for our future colonists. Imagine kids in the future, growing up dreaming of being goat herders on Mars.

Kids, hell. As long as I could get a good enough price to make sure my folks were well looked after, I'd sell my indenture tomorrow to go and be a goat herder on Mars.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#563

Post by f_allwein » Tue, Sep 27, 2016, 11:19 PM UTC

anexprogrammer wrote: post #93

I'd really like to see us taking space seriously. While I'm still here. One of my earliest strong memories was the last moon landing. This was followed by years of "Tomorrow's World" and "Horizon" telling us about the Moon bases, Mars bases and orbital platforms that would soon follow. We got Skylab and some very interesting probes. I'm a tiny bit disappointed in that. We were meant to be en route to Starfleet Comman…

There is a line in the film “Interstellar” that stuck with me: “We used to look up at the sky and wonder at our place in the stars. Now we just look down and worry about our place in the dirt.” Now the film plays in a dystopian future, but I think the quote is still appropriate for us as a civilization. If Elon can change that, all the better.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#564

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 27, 2016, 11:20 PM UTC

richcollins wrote: post #325

mikeash wrote: post #148

Some of the comments here make me think of crabs in a pot pulling down the ones who try to climb out. Nobody's making you participate in this venture. If you don't like it, then you're free to go do whatever it is you do like. You might think Musk could better direct his efforts and resources elsewhere, but most other billionaires don't do anything all that interesting, they just invest their money in mundane stuff,…

We are being made to participate in this venture via taxes. That said, its incredibly exciting.

[deleted]

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#565

Post by hasbroslasher » Tue, Sep 27, 2016, 11:22 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #148

Some of the comments here make me think of crabs in a pot pulling down the ones who try to climb out. Nobody's making you participate in this venture. If you don't like it, then you're free to go do whatever it is you do like. You might think Musk could better direct his efforts and resources elsewhere, but most other billionaires don't do anything all that interesting, they just invest their money in mundane stuff,…

Criticism is good and the world needs more of it to thrive. It's not going to kill you (or Elon Musk, for that matter) to have some disagree with them. Forums were made for this very reason!

1. Part of participating in humanity is being critical. Part of participating in anything is being critical. If people have complaints, it doesn't harm you to hear them out. If you only seek to have your beliefs validated via the internet, you're going to have a bad time.

2. Just because someone criticizes Musk doesn't mean they're not critical of anything else. They're just giving you their thoughts on the subject, which is better forum etiquette than just randomly going on about China when asked about NATO, so to speak.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#566

Post by dreamling » Tue, Sep 27, 2016, 11:23 PM UTC

sAuronas wrote: post #536

mikeash wrote: post #148

Some of the comments here make me think of crabs in a pot pulling down the ones who try to climb out. Nobody's making you participate in this venture. If you don't like it, then you're free to go do whatever it is you do like. You might think Musk could better direct his efforts and resources elsewhere, but most other billionaires don't do anything all that interesting, they just invest their money in mundane stuff,…

Every time I hear him talk about Mars (placing it before curing cancer), I think "if only he had grown up wanting to eradicate poverty." Still...rather than think ill of his idea - and work - we should celebrate his innovation and the way he will inspire others. As I thought about how he is perfecting rocket technology, I wandered off on a tangential rocket technology (thought) that would tract nuclear rockets launch…

how many things were invented as byproducts of the space race? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_spin-off_technologies

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#567

Post by 4bpp » Tue, Sep 27, 2016, 11:23 PM UTC

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #73

tcoppi wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throughout human history, there has always been a new/unexplored land to emigrate to for new opportunities or to escape political persecution. Nowdays there is nowhere left for someone in the West to emigrate to that is not substantially the same or worse. Mars and the stars could potentially offer that opportunity, which might be why some people are excited.

Why not the oceans? Much easier to populate than Mars.

What if the goal is actually to get away from the rest of humanity (in particular the part of it that would be likely think that colonising Mars is a ridiculous waste of money)? The circumstance that people of most political persuasions except for a very narrow set tend to find moving to Mars ridiculous but moving under the sea realistic itself seems to be pretty good evidence that if you wanted to get away from everyone outside of the narrow set, going to Mars would be good enough but going undersea would not.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#568

Post by Udo » Tue, Sep 27, 2016, 11:28 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #77

bsdetector wrote: post #47

We won't really be an interplanetary species until we can get back from Mars. Imagine being colonists on Mars without the ability to be totally self-sustaining without technology and supplies from Earth and nuclear war breaks out. It's going to be a long time before any Mars colony can survive on its own.

The first colonists will most likely not come back. Make no mistake, people are going to die in the first several runs. This will be one of the most dangerous endeavors mankind can attempt. As far as war breaking out, we're not going to make it to Mars in our current state. I don't think Mars is viable until we enter a post scarcity world. I find it unlikely we can even attempt it if we're still in a money based econ…

> Make no mistake, people are going to die in the first several runs.

I agree, and I would even say this is the main challenge of the project long term - whether we have the stomach for seeing hundreds of people blow up on the launch pad, suffocating in interplanetary space, or dying from exposure on Mars when a hab block fails (and all of that possibly repeatedly). For some reason we don't have problem sending millions of people to their deaths where they don't happen publicly, but that's where we are right now.

You have to weigh these risks (and PR impacts) against the severe drawbacks of civilization-wide stagnation, of which a potential mass extinction event on Earth is just one example.

Personally, I would choose to go even if there was a 50% chance of blowing up on the launchpad.

> The first colonists will most likely not come back.

If they survive for a few years, there will be return opportunities. There is no downside to offering people a ride on returning transports. I would say establishing a reasonable transfer rate between Mars and Earth is vital to the program on several levels. Update: just made it through the QA and Musk seems to agree with me, he says having the option of going back is vital, and they'll be offering free return trips on their transports.

> I don't think Mars is viable until we enter a post scarcity world

That amounts to never. As a transhumanist and futurist myself, I have grown far less optimistic about the political will to even work towards such a state in recent years. People are violently opposed to switching away from capitalism, for many irrational and even some rational reasons. I allege that technologically speaking the industrial nations of the world could switch to a post-scarcity scenario for the everyday needs of citizens pretty much right away if they wanted to.

There is also no compelling reason in my mind why colonizing another planet is something we just can't do using our current means. Some people say there is not enough money to do it, but in reality money is a malleable entity, and we're not batting an eyelash at wasting literally trillions on it. But for some reason investing mere billions into technologically progressive ideas suddenly brings up fundamental questions about the scalability of our economy?

Lastly, I also believe starting self-sustaining colonies elsewhere might be the only way of rebooting into a post-scarcity system. Not saying that's what will happen, but at least there is a chance.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#569

Post by EdSharkey » Tue, Sep 27, 2016, 11:29 PM UTC

I think Musk must be a founding member of the Human Admiration Society. He's so positive on the achievements, adventures, survival of our species. And, he's on the watch too, warning us about possible looming threats like extinction events or AI run amok.

I want to join Musk's society! Let's keep humankind going!

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#570

Post by anexprogrammer » Tue, Sep 27, 2016, 11:30 PM UTC

redditmigrant wrote: post #528

anexprogrammer wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need a lot more like Musk, whether you agree with space or not. Investing their resources in crazy ideas of their heart, some might just work. We don't progress the species with digging up more rocks, building more stuff, selling more stuff, or dare I say it, finding a new way to get a cab. A few more vastly wealthy eccentrics building teams to play with space, fusion (carefully I hope), generation, or whatever pi…

>We don't progress the species with digging up more rocks, building more stuff, selling more stuff, or dare I say it, finding a new way to get a cab. I think you are assuming that being wealthy is just a state someone gets into magically. While the things you mention aren't on their own crazy species changing ideas, the selling stuff, the getting a cab is what allowed some folks to become wealthy and go after crazy t…

Hardly discounting. Or downplaying ability to make a successful huge business from formation - most can't after all.

It's the means to the end. Nothing wrong with that either.

Bezos was being connected with space as the destination in the 90s long before Amazon was even a certain hit or Blue Horizon. Amazon gave him the means to follow his childhood dream. That's not to trivialise an Amazon, but had Amazon failed, which it almost did, whatever came next would try to get big enough to make Blue Horizon. Selling books online wasn't unique, getting big fast was more so, at least for a while.

For Musk, he'd identified as having a dream of alternative energy, solar, and electric vehicles from years ago and mentioning it along the way. No surprise that as soon as he can he's founding Tesla. With SpaceX right after Paypal I cant recall hearing earlier mention, but I'm glad he did.