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Hallucinogens Have Doctors Tuning In Again

nytimes.com

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Re: Hallucinogens Have Doctors Tuning In Again

#11

Post by pw0ncakes »

Psychoactive drugs shouldn't be illegal, but they can be dangerous. They provide a lot of spiritual and psychological benefits for a lot of people, but have also wrecked a lot of people. Cocaine, heroin, amphetamines (including Rx) and alcohol are probably the worst, as far as I've seen. Psychedelics don't seem to be as damaging in general-- I think it could even be argued that alcohol is more dangerous than psilocybin-- but becoming an acid-head is a terrible idea. I find it astonishing that, although psychedelic experiences can be very interesting and illuminating, the vast majority of frequent drug users (e.g. 2-4x/month LSD users) are exhaustingly boring people.

Psychedelics are a completely different class of drug, of course, from coke and alcohol. Most people lump together utterly different behaviors (cocaine at a party vs. shrooms in the woods) into "doing drugs", and that isn't really fair. I think psychedelics have a lot of value to offer humanity, but they are dangerous and we, as a society, need to rediscover safe means of using them.

Re: Hallucinogens Have Doctors Tuning In Again

#12

Post by pmichaud »

josefresco wrote: post #4

Hey this "friend of mine" subscribes to Playboy and in this months issue there's a pretty decent article on the use of MDMA, LCD etc. for people who are dieing and need "end of life treatment"

MDMA might save your life (or marriage) if you find a person who can teach you how to take it (attendant... guide... whatever).

Re: Hallucinogens Have Doctors Tuning In Again

#13

Post by pw0ncakes »

[deleted] wrote: post #10
moron4hire wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, what's irritating to me is the reason they've had to "rediscover" it: the prohibitions our government imposes on what private individuals do to their own bodies.

[deleted]

There are a lot of motivations behind the anti-drug movement, many of which are ignoble, but I think genuine concern is one of them. Most people don't want their children using them, and the drugs are dangerous, at least when used recklessly as they often are. Also, most people don't make the distinction between "hedonistic" drug use, such as using cocaine, and exploratory/psychedelic drug use, which is a different lifestyle altogether.

Most people who have a problem with LSD aren't worried about the "free thinking", because they don't associate these drugs with expanded consciousness. They're afraid that their kid will have a bad trip and develop long-lasting psychological problems (which is unlikely but not impossible).

People who are aware of the power and potential benefits of psychedelics are generally against criminalization, which decreases drug use but increases drug-related harm substantially.

Re: Hallucinogens Have Doctors Tuning In Again

#15

Post by euroclydon »

[deleted] wrote: post #10
moron4hire wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, what's irritating to me is the reason they've had to "rediscover" it: the prohibitions our government imposes on what private individuals do to their own bodies.

[deleted]

How do psychedelics get people thinking for themselves? I've been in and around that culture, and I still wanted to go work at some crappy job so I could be a consumer.

I've found that a having clear mind is a much more conducive to uncovering the matrix than being high is.

Re: Hallucinogens Have Doctors Tuning In Again

#16

Post by pw0ncakes »

pmichaud wrote: post #12
josefresco wrote: post #4

Hey this "friend of mine" subscribes to Playboy and in this months issue there's a pretty decent article on the use of MDMA, LCD etc. for people who are dieing and need "end of life treatment"

MDMA might save your life (or marriage) if you find a person who can teach you how to take it (attendant... guide... whatever).

I could be wrong, and I stopped using recreational drugs altogether after developing panic disorder in 2008-- I don't know if there's a connection between my past drug use and the disorder, but I thought the first attacks were bad salvia "flashbacks" or possibly God punishing me for being reckless-- but I think that everything beneficial that can be achieved with psychoactive drugs can be achieved, in time, with meditation. The difference is that meditation takes time and discipline before you start having experiences, while drugs provide experiences right away, but aren't always safe.

I've often made this analogy. Meditation is like riding your bike into the woods. When you start out, you're not in shape so you don't get very far, but you don't end up farther in than you can handle. Psychedelics are like hitchhiking: you get a lot farther, don't always know where the fuck you are, and can usually get back safely (but not always).

Re: Hallucinogens Have Doctors Tuning In Again

#17

Post by Alex3917 »

bluedanieru wrote: post #3

It's really irritating when scientists "rediscover" what people have known for years. Yes of course psilocybin can give people intense, potentially life-changing experiences. Did you think we were making all that shit up? And it's not even that there is now empirical evidence to make it "true." These guys aren't the first to do these sorts of experiments.

"These guys aren't the first to do these sorts of experiments."

Actually they are the first to do most of them. Back in the 60s they used to use LSD, which they no longer use because it's too long lasting and also because of its bad reputation. We also now have an empirically derived mysticism scale which wasn't available in the 60s, as well as a bunch of new methodologies that are much tighter than what they were using for the good friday experiments.

Not to mention that in the 60s the studies they were doing weren't on end-of-life anxiety, and it wasn't even known that ego death was the key mediating variable.

edit: And, most importantly, the reason they're doing these experiments is to get psilocybin approved as a drug by the FDA. And I somehow doubt the argument that because LSD had some similar benefits in minimally controlled trials 50 years ago, that psilocybin should now be moved to schedule 3 without safety or efficacy testing.

Re: Hallucinogens Have Doctors Tuning In Again

#18

Post by spot »

bluedanieru wrote: post #3

It's really irritating when scientists "rediscover" what people have known for years. Yes of course psilocybin can give people intense, potentially life-changing experiences. Did you think we were making all that shit up? And it's not even that there is now empirical evidence to make it "true." These guys aren't the first to do these sorts of experiments.

This is (good) news for two reasons. 1) The evidence is now much better. The old studies weren't double blind and were otherwise flawed procedurally. 2) The government (many agencies) approved of the studies after decades of denials. EDIT: plus reason 3) demonstrating lack of negative side-effects.

The scientists who are behind them have made significant (to put it mildly) sacrifices to advance a cause that you will benefit from. "Irritation" is an ungracious reaction (to put it mildly).

Re: Hallucinogens Have Doctors Tuning In Again

#19

Post by omarchowdhury »

pw0ncakes wrote: post #11

Psychoactive drugs shouldn't be illegal, but they can be dangerous. They provide a lot of spiritual and psychological benefits for a lot of people, but have also wrecked a lot of people. Cocaine, heroin, amphetamines (including Rx) and alcohol are probably the worst, as far as I've seen. Psychedelics don't seem to be as damaging in general-- I think it could even be argued that alcohol is more dangerous than psilocyb…

Taking a psychedelic is always a taxing and challenging experience, I don't know why anyone would want to do it frequently.

Re: Hallucinogens Have Doctors Tuning In Again

#20

Post by akgerber »

pw0ncakes wrote: post #16
pmichaud wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MDMA might save your life (or marriage) if you find a person who can teach you how to take it (attendant... guide... whatever).

I could be wrong, and I stopped using recreational drugs altogether after developing panic disorder in 2008-- I don't know if there's a connection between my past drug use and the disorder, but I thought the first attacks were bad salvia "flashbacks" or possibly God punishing me for being reckless-- but I think that everything beneficial that can be achieved with psychoactive drugs can be achieved, in time, with medi…

And riding your bike into the woods is like meditation.
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