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Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

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Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#121

Post by twoodfin »

jimjimjim wrote: post #99

Hope! To be honest I don't think it matters if mars will be any better but at least it's progress. and in a totalitarian sort of way, which would be better for the human race, getting off this rock or having the world upgrade from an iphone 11 to an iphone 12?

If everyone in the world could afford an iPhone 12, that would be a net gain dwarfing anything we'd get from a Martian colony.

It would also imply a world economy that could easily support the development of such a colony. It's not an either/or.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#122

Post by yazaddaruvala »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #69
aerovistae wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but you seem to be saying "Let's not be excited about colonizing another planet-- life will be just as depressing there."

That's actually not a bad way to put it! Think about it this way. What if there was an uninhabited island out in the Pacific that was hard to get to. What makes it worth trying to get to? There isn't anything any more special there than here. In fact from all we've seen so far it's much less special. Same goes for Mars. What is the value in being "multi-planetary?" I mean the idea that this is a hedge against some ex…

Is your financial portfolio diversified?

Owning one stock that has previously grown at 10% yoy is the same as owning ten stocks which have previously grown at 10% yoy right?

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#123

Post by spdustin »

ravenstine wrote: post #107

I have a better idea: Let's focus all the money and effort we would spend on getting to Mars and living on its wasteland, and use it to understand the human mind and digitize it into a realm not individually constrained by physics? I actually think that may be a more realistic and practical goal, and our quality of lives could be much better. I mean, what do we really get from living somewhere like Mars? A storage co…

We get to experience the Brand New again. We get to learn things that are unlearnable right now. We get to leave behind a planet whose ecosystem has been screwed by its current population and try to make the right choices on a new one.

But mostly?

Because it's hard, and rising to the challenge can supersede politics and superstition and, we can only hope, recapture the sense of, "holy shit, we did it!" not experienced by a large percentage of our population since 1969.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#124

Post by astazangasta »

andars wrote: post #54
astazangasta wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote a long essay about this that I have yet to publish, but my basic point is this: 1. Mars is a fucking desert. There is no air, water or life. 2. Venus is covered in CO2 clouds and sulfuric acid rain. Metal melts on its surface. We are not going to live in space. To even WANT to live in space is an absurd fantasy that is in violent conflict with the reality of space as an airless, inhospitable, largely resource…

Redundancy. A bad backup is better than none at all. In addition, because I believe it is worthwhile to attempt difficult things to see what we can achieve. Inspiration is a valid goal.

Inspiration is a tautological goal. "Why do we do X? Because it is inspiring!" only works if we find X worthy for some reason. How about: real goals that substantively improve life on Earth?

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#125

Post by Retric »

Gravityloss wrote: post #83
Rezo wrote: post #2

SpaceX Interplanetary Transport System: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qo78R_yYFA

Unconventional design. The rocket looks very large and they mention 120 million newtons takeoff thrust so the weight is about 10 million kg, 3 times Saturn V size. The first stage lands back on launch stool, the tanker stage is put on top of it and it launches again. This implies a relatively fast turnaround. Both the second stage and the tanker seem to have complete heat shields and stub wings and ability to re-ente…

I don't think they would stick to pure ION drive or pure chemical rocks. Mixing them seems like a great option depending on how cheap they can get fuel to orbit. The could also refuel in mars orbit.

A pure ion drive for all the equipment even if this means it takes 4x as long to get there, then a 'small' capsule back and forth for people.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#126

Post by mikeash »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #29
davidw wrote: post #6

This is so pleasant to see after being bombarded with US presidential politics. Science, hope and progress!

What about going to a different planet makes you think we won't just be taking those same problems with us? The earth isn't the problem - The problem is the human brain. We aren't genetically capable of processing the world we have built. Expect there to be Trump IV vs Clinton IV 2117 hosted live on Mars if we haven't made significant improvements in human engineering.

That's fine. The goal isn't to escape our problems, it's to explore new places, live there, and set up humanity so one big asteroid won't kill it.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#127

Post by M_Grey »

raizinho wrote: post #91
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually not a bad way to put it! Think about it this way. What if there was an uninhabited island out in the Pacific that was hard to get to. What makes it worth trying to get to? There isn't anything any more special there than here. In fact from all we've seen so far it's much less special. Same goes for Mars. What is the value in being "multi-planetary?" I mean the idea that this is a hedge against some ex…

If humanity lasts, in about a billion years the Earth will be no longer be in the Sun's habitable zone. Might as well start preparing from now.

Lets survive the next few hundred years a species first, eh? We have a long way to go to make that happen, and a big part of it definitely involves mastering travel around and mining of our solar system. It probably doesn't involve the expense and resources of major colonization efforts though, barring truly enormous breakthroughs in materials science, energy production and storage.

Lets focus on that, since without those factors a billion years will just find the raccoons or squid that replaced us facing the same problem.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#129

Post by fixermark »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #29
davidw wrote: post #6

This is so pleasant to see after being bombarded with US presidential politics. Science, hope and progress!

What about going to a different planet makes you think we won't just be taking those same problems with us? The earth isn't the problem - The problem is the human brain. We aren't genetically capable of processing the world we have built. Expect there to be Trump IV vs Clinton IV 2117 hosted live on Mars if we haven't made significant improvements in human engineering.

The problems we take with us aren't the problem this project addresses---there is one problem we unequivocally leave behind if we successfully colonize Mars.

For all our accomplishments, the human species is one unavoidable planet-scale disaster away from total extinction. We know this class of disaster has happened in Earth's past, and we know we lack the capability to stop it. Colonizing Mars gives the species that much more chance to extend its survival past the terrestrial-impact threshold.

There are myriad other ways we could wipe ourselves out that myriad people are working on. None of them matter if something kills Earth's biosphere (much like this project doesn't matter if something like war kills us off before we succeed). They aren't mutually exclusive.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#130

Post by Gravityloss »

Retric wrote: post #125
Gravityloss wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unconventional design. The rocket looks very large and they mention 120 million newtons takeoff thrust so the weight is about 10 million kg, 3 times Saturn V size. The first stage lands back on launch stool, the tanker stage is put on top of it and it launches again. This implies a relatively fast turnaround. Both the second stage and the tanker seem to have complete heat shields and stub wings and ability to re-ente…

I don't think they would stick to pure ION drive or pure chemical rocks. Mixing them seems like a great option depending on how cheap they can get fuel to orbit. The could also refuel in mars orbit. A pure ion drive for all the equipment even if this means it takes 4x as long to get there, then a 'small' capsule back and forth for people.

The amount of power is a few orders of magnitude too low to propel these kind of masses electrically.

Basically you need at least 10 kW per Newton.

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