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Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

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Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#91

Post by raizinho »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #69
aerovistae wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but you seem to be saying "Let's not be excited about colonizing another planet-- life will be just as depressing there."

That's actually not a bad way to put it! Think about it this way. What if there was an uninhabited island out in the Pacific that was hard to get to. What makes it worth trying to get to? There isn't anything any more special there than here. In fact from all we've seen so far it's much less special. Same goes for Mars. What is the value in being "multi-planetary?" I mean the idea that this is a hedge against some ex…

If humanity lasts, in about a billion years the Earth will be no longer be in the Sun's habitable zone. Might as well start preparing from now.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#92

Post by breuleux »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #73
tcoppi wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throughout human history, there has always been a new/unexplored land to emigrate to for new opportunities or to escape political persecution. Nowdays there is nowhere left for someone in the West to emigrate to that is not substantially the same or worse. Mars and the stars could potentially offer that opportunity, which might be why some people are excited.

Why not the oceans? Much easier to populate than Mars.

Earth's oceans span twice Mars's entire surface, too. Lots of room!

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#93

Post by anexprogrammer »

I'd really like to see us taking space seriously. While I'm still here.

One of my earliest strong memories was the last moon landing. This was followed by years of "Tomorrow's World" and "Horizon" telling us about the Moon bases, Mars bases and orbital platforms that would soon follow. We got Skylab and some very interesting probes. I'm a tiny bit disappointed in that. We were meant to be en route to Starfleet Command and global cooperation (which always seemed a big ask as we were at the height of the cold war).

However, I can't help thinking if we do become a multiplanetary species before resolving the issues of this one a few things are just a matter of time. That some politician claims we don't need to care about emissions as we now have a spare, so he's going to build loads of new coal. That Esso wants to know if there's oil. That we have an interplanetary falling out (OK that's probably a while away). That we start littering and buggering up the rest of the solar system.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#95

Post by pinewurst »

Gravityloss wrote: post #83
Rezo wrote: post #2

SpaceX Interplanetary Transport System: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qo78R_yYFA

Unconventional design. The rocket looks very large and they mention 120 million newtons takeoff thrust so the weight is about 10 million kg, 3 times Saturn V size. The first stage lands back on launch stool, the tanker stage is put on top of it and it launches again. This implies a relatively fast turnaround. Both the second stage and the tanker seem to have complete heat shields and stub wings and ability to re-ente…

Speed to Mars though is really relative speed along whatever orbit (Hohmann transfer or the moral equivalent) that you choose. Only in SF stories do we have fully powered propulsion to Mars.

I am very curious what the selected family of orbits is, and even more importantly how long & how much life support for the large passenger number.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#96

Post by greglindahl »

astazangasta wrote: post #37
verandaguy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your point?

I wrote a long essay about this that I have yet to publish, but my basic point is this: 1. Mars is a fucking desert. There is no air, water or life. 2. Venus is covered in CO2 clouds and sulfuric acid rain. Metal melts on its surface. We are not going to live in space. To even WANT to live in space is an absurd fantasy that is in violent conflict with the reality of space as an airless, inhospitable, largely resource…

You might want to go read up on Mars before you publish that essay... Mars has an atmosphere and lots of water ice. You can grow plants on Mars by compressing the atmosphere. You can use the atmosphere plus water to make methane rocket fuel, and water to make LOX.

For Venus, the way to build a colony is to place it way up in the atmosphere, at Earth pressure.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#97

Post by bsdetector »

nickparker wrote: post #62
bsdetector wrote: post #47

We won't really be an interplanetary species until we can get back from Mars. Imagine being colonists on Mars without the ability to be totally self-sustaining without technology and supplies from Earth and nuclear war breaks out. It's going to be a long time before any Mars colony can survive on its own.

Getting back is actually much easier, and we won't send anyone until there's a return ship ready for them on the ground. Mars escape velocity is ~5 km/s compared to 11 km/s for Earth, so right off the bat it takes half as much delta-v to get off Mars. The numbers get even more attractive when you consider that Mars's atmosphere is so thin you can use vacuum-optimized engines on the surface. It's a near-certainty that…

What I meant is, until Mars is self-sustaining and eventually capable of recolonizing Earth. Colonists rocketing back to a nuclear wasteland or planet infected with super-viruses won't protect us from extinction.

And it's much easier and cheaper just to have underground bunkers than to bring a few people back from Mars on a rocket right after some disaster.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#98

Post by nathancahill »

rtkwe wrote: post #52
Red_Tarsius wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. I watched my first and last presidential debate yesterday, they raised no relevant solutions. I'm so giddy, what a better way than to spend such historical date with my fellow HN users!

The whole process is kind of built against showing any solid plans until as late as possible. It's hard to argue against the nebulous idea of 'create more jobs' other than 'that's not an actual plan'. Once your opponent provides a solid plan you get all sorts of new ways to attack it like cost (especially cost). Another reason to not put out a detailed plan is that the actual bills/regulations you can get in office a…

The second reason is the correct one.

Downvoters, tell me why I'm wrong?

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#100

Post by chillingeffect »

tcoppi wrote: post #60
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about going to a different planet makes you think we won't just be taking those same problems with us? The earth isn't the problem - The problem is the human brain. We aren't genetically capable of processing the world we have built. Expect there to be Trump IV vs Clinton IV 2117 hosted live on Mars if we haven't made significant improvements in human engineering.

Throughout human history, there has always been a new/unexplored land to emigrate to for new opportunities or to escape political persecution. Nowdays there is nowhere left for someone in the West to emigrate to that is not substantially the same or worse. Mars and the stars could potentially offer that opportunity, which might be why some people are excited.

IIUC you're saying someone would have a better chance escaping to Mars to enjoy their political freedom rather than, say, a mountain community in the U.S.

I don't think that follows. The forces that exert a stranglehold on terrestrial freedom-seekers will exert 10x the grip on territories where the resources required to contain dissidence are greater than terrestrially. If they won't let people run around in the Ozarks with machine guns, they sure won't let them on spacecraft in a fragile space colony.

The simple fact that an extraterrestrial colony requires more resources than a terrestrial one implies there will be limited freedom there. At least until the planet is somehow liberated from excessive control. But I don't see how that will happen until thousands of planets are available to the point that Authority can abandon a planet...

...or until a "Space-Columbus" is able to colonize another planet without the control of a terrestrial force or until another planet is able to liberate itself from Earthlings. That will take a while, but I guess you have to start somewhere and maybe SpaceX is it. :)

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