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Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

nytimes.com

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Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#281

Post by wolfgke »

ajuc wrote: post #257
wolfgke wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Using a cellphone is voluntarily, too. Indeed. But the difference is that it is legal (and possible) to program a very open (and privacy-conscious) messaging service. On the other hand, it is completely illegal (in the US by FCC ruling) to develop a completely free and open baseband processor and use it. It is also nearly impossible to set up an alternative cellphone network since you need licenses for using the pa…

You can develop a phone using open band (CB radio for example).

At least in Germany, where I live, there are similar regulations concerning permission to build your own radio device for CB band as for baseband processors (i.e. if you want to legally use your self-built device there are strong restrictions (CE certifications are nearly unaffordable for makers).

Also in CB bands you are not allowed to encrypt the sent data. Thus not an option for people caring about privacy.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#282

Post by oldmanjay »

smokeyj wrote: post #245
ryandrake wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could always, I dunno... stop using Facebook and WhatsApp and other software that you find harmful. I know, totally crazy idea. Just throwing it out there.

It seems the population is literally addicted to FB hence the cognitive dissonance. If anything should be lobbied for it's better mental health services related to social media addiction.

It's an addiction that can be quit instantly with no ill effects using nothing more than the willpower it takes to turn down a second slice of cake. Unfortunately I can't imagine what sort of social service can teach all these progressively-more-coddled generations how to tap willpower.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#283

Post by kafkaesq »

achou wrote: post #251

A former colleague of mine who was a distinguished academic and successful tech executive grew up in East Germany. After the Berlin wall fell, he was able to enter the building where they kept the dossiers. He found his own file and was astounded by the information they had on him. His friends, his work, his habits. Photos of himself going about his business. His social circles. His friends were equally shocked by th…

Same affect achieved with social media. But instead of coercing us with barbed wire and machine gun nests... they watch us drug ourselves with dopamine-jerking apps that let us feel "connected" to people we aren't really all that connected to... and ah, that tingly feeling every time someone likes a photo we've shared, or a comment we made. Or "swipes right" on us.

And the beauty is that these days, the guardians of State Security don't even have to do anything for all that metadata, all these photos, likes and heartfelt confessions of lust and ardour to be neatly digitized... they just have to sit back and (carefully) suck it all up.

Except this time around their "cabinets" are about 850 million times bigger:

http://apps.opendatacity.de/stasi-vs-nsa/english.html

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#284

Post by zigzigzag »

Gracana wrote: post #264
cortesoft wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so in return Facebook and WhatsApp get to learn about you. That is the cost of doing business with them. Why is that cost so different than the normal cost we pay for things (cash money)? Yes, things we value have costs. It is always a sacrifice to go without that thing, but if we want to AVOID having to go without it, we have to pay something. "I can't believe you are making me pay this cell phone bill! I have n…

If I give someone money, it is their money and they can do what they want with it, it does not matter to me. If I give someone information about myself, it's still connected to me, but now it's under their control. They can use it to exploit or harm me, and so can anyone they sell it to, or anyone who steals it. It's that indeterminate potential for future abuse that makes it important. That's why we consider it diff…

I hate to break it to you, but when you make a payment online, the recipient learns your legal name, probably a billing address i.e. where you live, and you probably don't even think about it.

I do see a lot of double standards in these discussions. People never articulate who is specifically being hurt or what the specific problem is. Instead allusions to fascist governments are made, which would be fine, if these companies were governments. But they aren't: they have no power. If you're rightly scared about the combination of information and force, it's government surveillance that deserves the attention, not harmless chat apps.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#285

Post by blowski »

jsprogrammer wrote: post #258
achou wrote: post #251

A former colleague of mine who was a distinguished academic and successful tech executive grew up in East Germany. After the Berlin wall fell, he was able to enter the building where they kept the dossiers. He found his own file and was astounded by the information they had on him. His friends, his work, his habits. Photos of himself going about his business. His social circles. His friends were equally shocked by th…

WhatsApp users were estimated to have a seven year useful life at the time of their sale. Facebook will want a profit on them, but if the estimate was accurate, there are only five years left until they are used up. Facebook may become increasingly desperate to transfer any remaining users into their primary product.

Estimated by whom?

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#286

Post by zigzigzag »

smokeyj wrote: post #231
technofiend wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But if you have a database of the entire population and can correlate relationships in data That's exactly what the legislation constrains - Zuck's select * from where user_id = 'technofiend' returns 3 rows not hundreds or thousands, or zero if I've opted out of data collection entirely. You can't simply throw your hands up and say "Well Facebook has a billion users too bad so sad if they collect data you don't like…

Adopting an alternative to Zuckernet is the exact opposite. Continuing to hand your life's data to Zuck is to throw your hands up. Begging your politician for a little privacy from Zuck when strong encryption exists is to throw your hands up. People care enough about privacy to complain about it but not enough to do anything. I don't have much sympathy for them.

We're talking about WhatsApp here right? Which already uses strong encryption?

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#287

Post by matthewmacleod »

oldmanjay wrote: post #282
smokeyj wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems the population is literally addicted to FB hence the cognitive dissonance. If anything should be lobbied for it's better mental health services related to social media addiction.

It's an addiction that can be quit instantly with no ill effects using nothing more than the willpower it takes to turn down a second slice of cake. Unfortunately I can't imagine what sort of social service can teach all these progressively-more-coddled generations how to tap willpower.

This is not a useful argument.

One could certainly stop stop Facebook, WhatsApp, Twitter, Snapchat and so on. But you'd have to consider what the impact is; maybe you'll become more distant from friends and family. Maybe you'll miss out on events. These things are pretty important, for obvious reasons, and it's a shallow argument that everybody can simply walk away "instantly with no ill effects".

It's up to the individual to decide if the trade off is worth it. Clearly, for some, it is.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#288

Post by blowski »

kuschku wrote: post #230
ryandrake wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could always, I dunno... stop using Facebook and WhatsApp and other software that you find harmful. I know, totally crazy idea. Just throwing it out there.

Network effects – at this point even some schools and newspapers are heavily using WhatsApp – make that impossible. Which means either WhatsApp is replaced by something else, or it becomes as regulated as any governmental media. EDIT: A bank already replaced most of their support channels with a WhatsApp chat. It IS a utility at that point.

Also, employers and travel authorities who view the lack of a Facebook accountant as suspicious.

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#289

Post by zigzigzag »

nojvek wrote: post #188

While Germany is protecting their citizens from facebook's shady privacy policies, The US leaders argue about who has more stamina. I'm very happy paying 1$ a year for privacy and security. Whatsapp just re-iterated that they will say anything to fool its users and break their promise. Facebook should definitely get a fine in billions and should be made to apologize publicly for breaching privacy.

If you're paying $1 a year you don't have privacy: you just gave your banking details to the provider. Why do you think this is better than optional linking to a Facebook profile that may or may not even use your real name, and almost certainly does not have your street address on it?

Re: Facebook Ordered to Stop Collecting Data on WhatsApp Users in Germany

#290

Post by dhimes »

ufo wrote: post #215
dhimes wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some previous discussions here: duckduckgo whatsapp facebook brazil !hn

why not just provide the URL directly? https://hn.algolia.com/?query=whatsapp%20facebook%20brazil

Well, I like duckduckgo for one and was showing them some love. Especially appropriate in this thread.
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