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In Brooklyn, Uber is now bigger than taxis

toddwschneider.com

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Re: In Brooklyn, Uber is now bigger than taxis

#131

Post by imagist »

EdHominem wrote: post #129
imagist wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, by removing all nuance from what I actually said, you can argue for anything.

I think you need to read between the lines of your own post. That's some pretty serious Stockholm Syndrome going on there... Despite horrible service, a forced monopoly, and continual racist crimes, you want to support the incumbent system. You also got the business aspect totally backwards. Very few taxi drivers own their own medallions so the money almost always flows to a rent-seeking corporation anyways, and at l…

> Despite horrible service, a forced monopoly, and continual racist crimes, you want to support the incumbent system.

That's half of what I said. I also described why I want to support the current system.

> Taxi drivers pay ~$200 a day to rent their medallion - if they don't make more than that, they've worked all day for a loss.

So is the solution to that reform of the medallion system, or is it switching over to a silicon valley startup which will likely become just as exploitative if it isn't already?

> If you support taxi companies you're abusing the drivers by perpetuating a broken system.

If you support Uber, you're abusing the drivers by replacing a broken system with another broken system.

I don't want to support taxi companies, I want to support taxi drivers.

I'll say it again: if you remove all the nuance from what I'm saying, you can use my words to support anything, but I'm not really interested in engaging in this hamfisted debate.

Re: In Brooklyn, Uber is now bigger than taxis

#132

Post by brendoncrawford »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #60
brendoncrawford wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In contrast to that, in Los Angeles, Uber drivers quite often are not familiar with the area they serve, so they are glued to their navigation apps. This can not only create unsafe driving conditions, but sometimes can cause an Uber ride to take twice as long as a taxi ride. If convenience, comfort, and customer service are not a priority, and I just need to get somewhere fast, the taxi is still the way to go.

> but sometimes can cause an Uber ride to take twice as long as a taxi ride I never imagined navigation apps could suck like that! I have no love for Uber, but I always imagined any navigation app will on average outperform even a knowledgeable driver.

One good example I can think of is if there is a no-right-turn-on-red combined with an unusually long red light. These are common in intersections with 4 green-left-turn arrows.

A knowledgeable driver might know to make a right turn at an earlier intersection, whereas the navigation apps do not always account for this.

Re: In Brooklyn, Uber is now bigger than taxis

#133

Post by EdHominem »

imagist wrote: post #131
EdHominem wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you need to read between the lines of your own post. That's some pretty serious Stockholm Syndrome going on there... Despite horrible service, a forced monopoly, and continual racist crimes, you want to support the incumbent system. You also got the business aspect totally backwards. Very few taxi drivers own their own medallions so the money almost always flows to a rent-seeking corporation anyways, and at l…

> Despite horrible service, a forced monopoly, and continual racist crimes, you want to support the incumbent system. That's half of what I said. I also described why I want to support the current system. > Taxi drivers pay ~$200 a day to rent their medallion - if they don't make more than that, they've worked all day for a loss. So is the solution to that reform of the medallion system, or is it switching over to a…

> I also described why I want to support the current system.

Right "Local business owners". But Taxi drivers aren't. They're contractors without any of the benefits of being an employee, or of owning the business. Uber drivers meet all those criteria and more.

Taxi drivers pay to rent their medallion, guaranteeing the rent-seeking owner their profits even on days when the poor driver goes negative. Uber drivers don't even get in their cars until the app lights up. Taxi businesses are clearly predatory and wouldn't be allowed if they were proposed today.

Re: In Brooklyn, Uber is now bigger than taxis

#134

Post by xapata »

ethanbond wrote: post #121
xapata wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to think it's easy for customers to switch. I think there's enough barrier that they can keep the network intact.

What are you talking about? I have like 4 ridesharing apps on my phone concurrently and switch between them based on whoever has the lowest time-until-pickup. What barrier do you think is there?

I'm too lazy to do that. I used to have 3, then uninstalled Fasten. Now I have both Lyft and Uber and am considering uninstalling Lyft because I never use it.

Why should I waste time tapping on a different app, waiting for it to load, tapping through the destination, etc.? The estimated wait times aren't accurate to the minute, so +/- the error they are almost always equivalent. Enough so that checking the other app feels like a waste of time. In the time it took to load the other app, I could have been waiting for the car to arrive. It's not worth the mental energy to choose.

Further, Uber has a prepay promotion. I pay an amount at the beginning of the month to avoid surge charges and get a discount through the rest of the month. I'm basically locked-in for any month that I prepay.

Re: In Brooklyn, Uber is now bigger than taxis

#135

Post by xapata »

imagist wrote: post #112
xapata wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> local business owners Uber is often locally-owned to the same extent. In both cases, the driver is your neighbor. Uber takes its cut, but the taxi medallion owner who rents the car to the driver might be taking a much bigger cut. Every driver I've met who has made the switch from taxi to Uber/Lyft says they're happier now and earning more. The only folks you should feel sad about are the drivers who decided to take…

> Every driver I've met who has made the switch from taxi to Uber/Lyft says they're happier now and earning more. This was true initially, but is no longer true. Many drivers are switching back, or switching to Gett. > The only folks you should feel sad about are the drivers who decided to take a loan to buy their own medallion. Those are the folks who need a hand because of the catastrophic collapse of their investm…

> Gett

Must be a different city. I've never heard of that one.

> different from a failed restaurant

Depending on the city, a liquor license can cost hundreds of thousands, much like a taxi medallion. Seems about the same to me.

Re: In Brooklyn, Uber is now bigger than taxis

#136

Post by ethanbond »

xapata wrote: post #134
ethanbond wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? I have like 4 ridesharing apps on my phone concurrently and switch between them based on whoever has the lowest time-until-pickup. What barrier do you think is there?

I'm too lazy to do that. I used to have 3, then uninstalled Fasten. Now I have both Lyft and Uber and am considering uninstalling Lyft because I never use it. Why should I waste time tapping on a different app, waiting for it to load, tapping through the destination, etc.? The estimated wait times aren't accurate to the minute, so +/- the error they are almost always equivalent. Enough so that checking the other app…

Here's an anecdote to explain how awful of a position Uber is in.

As mentioned elsewhere, I use Juno almost exclusively in NYC when traveling for personal reasons. How did I end up using Juno?

First, I was offered a steep discount via beta invite. By whom? My Uber driver. Problem 1. I sat on the invite for a few weeks through which I had numerous bad experiences with Uber (long wait times, bad drivers, second riders calling while I was in the car, etc.) Problem 2.

I called an Uber and it gave a 15 minute pickup time. Problem 3. I cancelled, found the Juno invite, downloaded the app, made an account, and was in a car within 10 minutes. Problem 4. The Juno driver and car was better than most recent Uber rides, the app was just as good as Uber's, and it cost me about 70% of the money. Problem 5.

So what exactly is Uber buying with these promotions? Another week of sub-15 minute pickup times by overworking their drivers? They're certainly not buying loyalty, nor any meaningful market share. No matter what they do, I'm As the service degrades in order to meet profitability demands (you do believe in basic finance: money in minus money out, right?), the calculus turns ever towards the competitor's favors. These young competitors are simply doing what young Uber did to the cabs: attract higher quality drivers in higher quality cars and higher quality riders, subsidize the hell out of it, and then figure out what to do.

They probably won't last either, but then none of them have to justify a $50bn valuation with a moonshot bet on technology that's not even close to being able to support the core of their business.

Re: In Brooklyn, Uber is now bigger than taxis

#137

Post by xapata »

ethanbond wrote: post #136
xapata wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm too lazy to do that. I used to have 3, then uninstalled Fasten. Now I have both Lyft and Uber and am considering uninstalling Lyft because I never use it. Why should I waste time tapping on a different app, waiting for it to load, tapping through the destination, etc.? The estimated wait times aren't accurate to the minute, so +/- the error they are almost always equivalent. Enough so that checking the other app…

Here's an anecdote to explain how awful of a position Uber is in. As mentioned elsewhere, I use Juno almost exclusively in NYC when traveling for personal reasons. How did I end up using Juno? First, I was offered a steep discount via beta invite. By whom? My Uber driver. Problem 1. I sat on the invite for a few weeks through which I had numerous bad experiences with Uber (long wait times, bad drivers, second riders…

> promotions don't buy their way out

I'm not talking about a give-away. A prepay program is similar to an airline loyalty program. Delta can charge me higher ticket fares than a competing airline on the same route, because it's good for me to consolidate my "miles" with one airline. Now that I'm "elite" they can manipulate my ego and get me to pay more so I have a chance at a "free" upgrade to a fancy seat.

If Uber can convince me to prepay, they don't need to compete on price or wait time for the rest of the month. It only needs to be a good enough value to convince me to prepay again the next month.

Going back to the airlines, that industry is quite similar to Uber's. Sure, there's the capital investment in airplanes, but that can be financed with debt or equity. There's negotiating terminal space, but again, that's just money. No barrier to entry there either. Now, the airline industry is a good example of a place it's tough to make money. "How do you make a million bucks? Start with a billion and start an airline." But the airlines are still around. Not sure why Uber is different from Delta.

Re: In Brooklyn, Uber is now bigger than taxis

#138

Post by andyzweb »

ethanbond wrote: post #136
xapata wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm too lazy to do that. I used to have 3, then uninstalled Fasten. Now I have both Lyft and Uber and am considering uninstalling Lyft because I never use it. Why should I waste time tapping on a different app, waiting for it to load, tapping through the destination, etc.? The estimated wait times aren't accurate to the minute, so +/- the error they are almost always equivalent. Enough so that checking the other app…

Here's an anecdote to explain how awful of a position Uber is in. As mentioned elsewhere, I use Juno almost exclusively in NYC when traveling for personal reasons. How did I end up using Juno? First, I was offered a steep discount via beta invite. By whom? My Uber driver. Problem 1. I sat on the invite for a few weeks through which I had numerous bad experiences with Uber (long wait times, bad drivers, second riders…

>You cannot give away money and expect to have more money than before you gave it away.

In the valley this is the most effective way to raise money.

Re: In Brooklyn, Uber is now bigger than taxis

#139

Post by vkou »

ThomPete wrote: post #124
vkou wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solving the self-driving car problem in busy urban centers is vastly more difficult then solving it for freeway driving. (Where this technology still manages to fail in a very spectacular way.)

You mean like here: https://www.instagram.com/p/BK0z7oZgOia7zfdlJ4ygJqEDBW8e17lq...

What is that supposed to prove? It's a test vehicle. It's being driven by a human. There's no roadmap, there's nothing that's passed certification, there's no roadmap for when there will be something that passes certification.

Re: In Brooklyn, Uber is now bigger than taxis

#140

Post by evanelias »

imagist wrote: post #74

Brooklynite here. In theory, I want to be behind taxi drivers. They're a local business owners with ties in the community, and I would rather support them than a Silicon Valley startup with a questionable stance on privacy and poor treatment of their workers. In reality though, taxis need to fix a few issues: 1. I don't need to be able to hail a cab anywhere--I can't really hail Ubers, either. But if I call a cab, I'…

> But if I call a cab, I'd like to have them show up within, say, 15 minutes. The reality is that the explicit promise given by dispatchers is usually an hour, > and after an hour, the taxi often doesn't show up

Out of curiosity, who are you calling that has these long response times? This reads strangely since you're saying cab/taxi, yet there's no way to call for an NYC yellow cab on the phone... only car services, which are independent companies.

In my experience, nearby Brooklyn car services send cars in 5 to 10 minutes in neighborhoods closer to Manhattan, or maybe around 15 minutes in more far-flung neighborhoods where the car services have smaller fleets. You just have to figure out which car services are physically located in the neighborhood you're in. e.g. call Arecibo from Park Slope where they're based, but don't call them from Coney Island because it's unlikely any of their drivers are there at the moment.

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