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Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

bloomberg.com

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Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#111

Post by whamlastxmas »

TAForObvReasons wrote: post #77
whamlastxmas wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you're downvoted. This is the first rational explanation for this I've ever seen - thanks. Doesn't really justify it still existing today, but makes me hate the system a little less.

I'm not surprised, anything that doesn't toe the Musk/Tesla line is usually met with downvotes here (already -3).

Musk is pretty divisive here to be honest. I see tons of anti Musk comments. I assume from your tone you aren't a fan of his, so I think what we're both seeing is confirmation bias that everyone is against our opinions.

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#112

Post by [deleted] »

whamlastxmas wrote: post #111
TAForObvReasons wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not surprised, anything that doesn't toe the Musk/Tesla line is usually met with downvotes here (already -3).

Musk is pretty divisive here to be honest. I see tons of anti Musk comments. I assume from your tone you aren't a fan of his, so I think what we're both seeing is confirmation bias that everyone is against our opinions.

[deleted]

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#113

Post by [deleted] »

vinay427 wrote: post #106
TAForObvReasons wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not really sure what the point of car dealers is From a DOJ analysis: > Auto production is a capital-intensive business and a franchise system allowed manufacturers to concentrate their resources upstream while accessing capital through franchise fees from independent entrepreneurs at the retail level. Given capital availability and resources at the time, it made sense for the auto makers to franchise. https://…

Thank you for responding to my confusion with this excellent article. It is intriguing to me that increased information on pricing and availability through the Internet has already eroded some of the benefits of dealership regulation. Perhaps they are a dying breed even with protective regulation that at least in the past proved mutually beneficial for automakers and dealerships.

[deleted]

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#114

Post by dabeeeenster »

zyx321 wrote: post #30
0xFFC wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see what you are saying and I partially agree with it. But the point is Audi,BMW,etc they are not first year art student. They have billion dollar R&D budget. Update: And keep in mind Tesla is not product of yesterday. Vibe for electronic car was around I think much longer than Tesla.But big names (Audi,BMW,etc) just ignored it for so long (maybe because of no serious competitor or corruptness -why do they need to…

And they evidently are working on it. But to say "release it now, don't make me wait 5 years" is beyond ignorant.

Beyond ignorant? That's polite.

Maybe if the OEMs had spent the last 10 years designing and building electric cars instead of putting out diesel agents that broke the law in dozens of countries they would be in a better position.

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#115

Post by toomuchtodo »

mikeash wrote: post #73
daveguy wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens in 8 years? Do you pay Tesla for a subscription?

Minor correction, it's free for 4 years. As for what happens, nobody knows, because nobody's run out the four years yet. When they announced the four free years, they also said that the clock started for existing customers on January 1, 2014, so nobody will hit the end for another year and some. I'd guess that it'll end up being a paid subscription after that, but nobody really knows yet. I wouldn't be surprised if T…

There will be a cost, but it will be minor, to offset their data costs on ATTs network for the massive amount of data they using for autopilot telemetry.

There is a rumor their cellular costs far exceed their Supercharger electricity costs.

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#116

Post by toomuchtodo »

ecopoesis wrote: post #38
Swizec wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's not hard then why is nobody doing it? Tesla's Model 3 costs £27k, has a range of 215 miles, and is promised to start delivering late next year. That's the state of the art. Best the world can do. Pretty sure that means it's hard.

No, that's a promise from a company that routinely misses ship dates. State of the art is probably the Chevy Bolt, with its 200+ mile range and cost around $40k. And unlike the Tesla Model 3, it exists. There are lots of reviews of it, and full production starts next week.

No autopilot.

No supercharger network.

No over the air software updates.

No 8 year/infinite mile power train warranty.

State of the art?

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#117

Post by [deleted] »

Swizec wrote: post #12
koonsolo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have to build entire cars, because there are plenty of good car builders in Europe (which already seem to be their customers) Tesla now has an edge on the technology front, but once the traditional European brands pick up, with technology that is better than Tesla (as assumed in the article), the question is if Tesla can keep it's market position. (This is in my opinion the main idea of the article) I agre…

The way auto industry has been going in recent decades, the most probable outcome is that Tesla merges with one of the main 10 vehicle manufacturing groups. Yes there are only 10 real players on the market. Toyota already owns 10% of Tesla. source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry#Top_vehicl...

[deleted]

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#118

Post by [deleted] »

fma wrote: post #102
desireco42 wrote: post #62

Look, it takes some guts of this journalists to come up with titles like this and writing articles. I wish all this electric cars best of success, but 'taking on Tesla', this is not some small irrelevant company, let's be real here. Tesla is leaps and bounds ahead of everyone, not only with having electric car, but also this car is like from future.

TSLA produces 2,000 per week. GM produces close to 10 million cars per year. Calculating that out, it's 192307 per week...almost 100x. TSLA isn't irrelevant, but definitely small. BTW GM is selling a mass produced 100% electric vehicle. You can have one in your driveway before the end of the year. $30k after tax incentive, 255 miles per charge (more than Tesla Model 3) http://www.autoblog.com/2016/09/21/chevy-bolt-go…

[deleted]

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#119

Post by mikeash »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #115
mikeash wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minor correction, it's free for 4 years. As for what happens, nobody knows, because nobody's run out the four years yet. When they announced the four free years, they also said that the clock started for existing customers on January 1, 2014, so nobody will hit the end for another year and some. I'd guess that it'll end up being a paid subscription after that, but nobody really knows yet. I wouldn't be surprised if T…

There will be a cost, but it will be minor, to offset their data costs on ATTs network for the massive amount of data they using for autopilot telemetry. There is a rumor their cellular costs far exceed their Supercharger electricity costs.

I wouldn't be surprised if that last part was true. With my electricity costs, I pay about 4 cents per mile. If that's typical, and if the average Tesla driver does 1,000 miles/month with 10% on Superchargers (which I think is vaguely close to the truth) then the electricity costs would be something like $4/month/car.

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#120

Post by rebootthesystem »

dorito_chimp wrote: post #90
blktiger wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect most people only _think_ they want the range-security of going to a gas station. In practice they'd find it a huge hassle to both plug in the car and go to a gas station. Probably the average person would end up either only using either the battery pack or the gas tank, not both.

Fair enough. But I still don't know why this is a hassle not a feature. You don't have to visit a gas station. Put it this way: if the Model S could have a gas tank (without losing electric range, trunk space or any of the other features that make it unique - I know pipe dream), wouldn't customer be happier to have this option as well.

Because I want to go electric to not have to deal with gasoline ever again. I don't want to have anything to do with gas stations. It would almost be embarrassing to me to buy a $100K+ "electric" car and have to visit the gas station at all.

And, yes, it's a hassle. Life with a pure electric is simple: Plug in at work, plug in at home, plug in at the mall, visit superchargers during trips if needed.

With the BMW's you have extreme electric range anxiety (only 80 miles) if you want to "be electric" and you have to now: plug in at work, plug in at home, go to the gas station by work, go to the gas station by home, plug in at the mall, gas-up by the mall, no superchargers during longer trips, so gas-up frequently due to the 10 gallon (or is it 8?) tank.

Then there's the complexity. You are lugging around 2,000 parts you didn't really want to be lugging around. Is that generator built to last like real auto propulsion engines?

Put it simply: It's a pain in the ass, it is likely to require more maintenance and it is embarrassing.

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