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Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

bloomberg.com

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Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#81

Post by blktiger »

dorito_chimp wrote: post #70
rebootthesystem wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The i3 and i8 are terrible cars as far as I am concerned. Range sucks. And, frankly, if I have to go to a gas station might as well get rid of the electric components and make a nice car. I like the physical design of the i8. I spent a hour looking at one. Ultimately, the idea of having to endure both visiting a gas station and plugging in just turned me off. I'd consider it as a pure electric with decent range or ga…

That's a very odd statement to make. Most people like the reassurance/range-security of being able to visit a gas station in addition to having an electrical engine. That's supposed to be a selling point of the car over Tesla even though it's electrical range sucks and Tesla's extensive supercharger network all but removes range anxiety.

I suspect most people only _think_ they want the range-security of going to a gas station. In practice they'd find it a huge hassle to both plug in the car and go to a gas station. Probably the average person would end up either only using either the battery pack or the gas tank, not both.

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#82

Post by xiphias »

macns wrote: post #22

Elon Musk when asked what he things about a specific BMW concept car (hubrid or full electric I can't really remember), said that it was a step towards the right direction. So I guess this too is a step closer to a cleaner earth. What bugs me though is the mentality of some big automakers or even nations, they seem to be making steps to compete with tesla to put it in a polite way. They're missing the whole point of…

I totally agree with you. This is good enough reason for me to give my money to Tesla even if a competitor is a little bit better on paper. But right now they can compete only on price (which BMW and Audi probably don't want).

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#83

Post by nojvek »

reacweb wrote: post #24
Maarten88 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. I think an underestimated advantage Tesla has over the traditional car makers is their software process. Tesla just released version 8, and rolled it out to all their customers. Traditional manufacturers must recall cars to fix a software problem, and charge customers for software upgrades. I guess it's hard for traditional car manufacturers to offer an integrated experience like that, you need to design a car…

Yes. All the stories I ear about software developed by traditional car makers confirm your point. Traditional car makers produce very bad software and have very bad organisation for software development.

You should see Toyota entune. New RAV4 SE, awesome car, tons of safety and sensors. Garbage software.

I think car makes just don't realize how big of a role, great software plays in how you feel about a car.

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#84

Post by nojvek »

koonsolo wrote: post #6
xgbi wrote: post #4

> The Austrian company says its patented laser-welding and thermal-cooling techniques give them an edge over Tesla because the method preserves the full power of the lithium-ion cells. This is what they say their advantage is against tesla. So be it, but I doubt it is revolutionnary. More importantly, Kreiser, as far as the article explains, doesn't build entire cars. They sell drivetrains and battery packages. This…

They don't have to build entire cars, because there are plenty of good car builders in Europe (which already seem to be their customers) Tesla now has an edge on the technology front, but once the traditional European brands pick up, with technology that is better than Tesla (as assumed in the article), the question is if Tesla can keep it's market position. (This is in my opinion the main idea of the article) I agre…

The biggest attraction for me in a tesla is its auto-pilot. It just keeps getting better. Google's self driving car is still not available for consumption. I doubt European car makers will even get close to Tesla in its software integration.

BMW, Audi and family are not as strong a brand as Tesla is. (For me at least)

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#85

Post by toss1 »

Maarten88 wrote: post #16
barpet wrote: post #2

I am a european and getting pissed off by these cocky austrians and germans. They are so full of themselves and keep trash talking about Tesla for so long. Yet they cannot deliver. Tesla does. Period. Also it's not only about technical superiority but experience as well. Tesla excels here.

Agree. I think an underestimated advantage Tesla has over the traditional car makers is their software process. Tesla just released version 8, and rolled it out to all their customers. Traditional manufacturers must recall cars to fix a software problem, and charge customers for software upgrades. I guess it's hard for traditional car manufacturers to offer an integrated experience like that, you need to design a car…

Yes, I've always been astonished at how bad the software and software management is in the auto industry.

And I'm personally still annoyed at BMW from about 8yrs ago when my X5 was occasionally throwing a spurious trivial dashboard warning and I asked about it at the dealer when I went in for some other warranty service. When I got back there was a $200 bill for doing a flash update to some controller, and the dealer insisted that it was BMW that kept it off warranty and charged them for each install.

While I could perhaps see some trivial $15 service fee to install it, charging $200 to fix their own damn bug is pretty outrageous. They should just be installing the full set of accumulated updates every time the car comes in for service.

But that's not how the auto industry thinks, so yes, that is a huge advantage for Tesla, even if the others are starting to come around, they are effectively a decade late.

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#86

Post by dorito_chimp »

drcross wrote: post #72
dorito_chimp wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure you know how much harder it is than a bunch of electrical and mechanical engineers who've been working on it for years. No doubt you're qualified to make such a statement because your expertise and experience in electrical systems and manufacturing trumps theirs. Probably you didn't read the whole article but their batteries have already been in at least one production vehicle for a couple years now (the por…

I don't need to be a film maker to critique a film. OP makes no claims of his/her superior engineering skills, only provides typical concerns that people have.

That is a totally false equivalence. You need to be a film maker to make a statement like "shooting film on medium format is so much harder than people think". Especially when you're armchair critiquing a professional film maker who shoots with it every day.

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#87

Post by dpark »

Brakenshire wrote: post #59
gambiting wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only it didn't look like a product of 4 different design departments welded together at the last minute, it would be almost perfect. Seriously, look at that car from the side - each panel(front body, front door, rear door, rear body) literally comes from a different designer - it doesn't even have a consistent line throughout.

I saw one the other day in my town, and liked the look of it. It does look wonky in photo shoots, but people don't look at cars in the same way in real life.

The i3? It looks exactly as wierd to me in real life as it does in photos. It's like they crossed a BMW, a Fiat, and a Roomba.

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#88

Post by XJOKOLAT »

denzil_correa wrote: post #25
raphaelj wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Audi, BMW, Volkswagen and Peugeot all sell electric or hybrid-electric cars.

How do these electric cars compare against Tesla?

I purposefully took a BMW i8 and a P90D for a test drive.

The i8 was woeful in comparison in all departments. They are different types of cars but the only area the i8 could speak up a little bit was in the looks department.

I haven't tried the i3 but I think it has a certain style of it's own. I'm not a huge fan but I like to see it when it rolls by as it means one more victory on the way to electric cars (and one less diesel cloud filling my lungs).

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#89

Post by rsync »

raphaelj wrote: post #8
barpet wrote: post #2

I am a european and getting pissed off by these cocky austrians and germans. They are so full of themselves and keep trash talking about Tesla for so long. Yet they cannot deliver. Tesla does. Period. Also it's not only about technical superiority but experience as well. Tesla excels here.

Audi, BMW, Volkswagen and Peugeot all sell electric or hybrid-electric cars.

"Audi, BMW, Volkswagen and Peugeot all sell electric or hybrid-electric cars."

Audi has a A3-etron which is not an electric car. Maybe they have some $500k etron-R8 but I am not sure if they ever built that.

BMW has the i3 which is kind of interesting, in a low-production-run, dip-your-toe-in-the-market kind of way. i8 is not an electric car. Some hybrids. Who cares.

Volkswagen has the e-golf which, in a sense, is more progress than the others since it's an actual VM car that actual people buy and is actually electric. It's not a car I would buy, but again - it's not a cutesy test market car and it's not a half-assed hybrid, so kudos to VW.

I don't know anything about Peugeot. Probably hybrids so who cares.

In conclusion:

We're in the same place we've been for 9-12 years: CEO of Audi/BMW/Porsche/Merc announce a major electric car initiative with consumer models (6 years from now) and a sexy concept car at a trade show. Then nothing happens. Then three years later, repeat.

Over and over and over.

Re: Kreisel Electric takes on Tesla

#90

Post by dorito_chimp »

blktiger wrote: post #81
dorito_chimp wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very odd statement to make. Most people like the reassurance/range-security of being able to visit a gas station in addition to having an electrical engine. That's supposed to be a selling point of the car over Tesla even though it's electrical range sucks and Tesla's extensive supercharger network all but removes range anxiety.

I suspect most people only _think_ they want the range-security of going to a gas station. In practice they'd find it a huge hassle to both plug in the car and go to a gas station. Probably the average person would end up either only using either the battery pack or the gas tank, not both.

Fair enough. But I still don't know why this is a hassle not a feature. You don't have to visit a gas station. Put it this way: if the Model S could have a gas tank (without losing electric range, trunk space or any of the other features that make it unique - I know pipe dream), wouldn't customer be happier to have this option as well.
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