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How does Google know where I am?

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Re: How does Google know where I am?

#61

Post by xapata »

kuschku wrote: post #40
mikestew wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it okay for a private company to have detailed positioning data from inside of your office or home? I don't know the answer to that question, but I have a guess at the answer to another question: "is it okay for a private company to create a geodatabase of SSID strings that were freely and willingly broadcast via radio?" I think the answer is "yes". Ten, fifteen years ago, if there were an HN story about how I, ow…

So, then it’d also be legal if I stand near all schools, and photograph every child with a telezoom lens, follow each of them home, and then publish a website with photos of every child and where they live? If they don’t want to be seen, they can just stop broadcasting their face and wear a burqa, right? There is a huge difference between "publicly available in every case seperately" and "publicly indexable". EDIT: I…

Yes, that probably is a legal activity. However, someone could sue for a restraining order. After that, and possibly further lawsuits, that activity would become illegal for you.

The possibilities of human behavior are infinite. We don't need to and can't enumerate all possible bad behaviors as illegal. Thus the civil court system.

On the second thought, I think there's some law against publishing images of people without their consent in some circumstances. I'm not clear on exactly what is allowed, but I know that TV broadcasters post notices in places that they are filming.

Re: How does Google know where I am?

#62

Post by brightsize »

tlow wrote: post #39
mikestew wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it okay for a private company to have detailed positioning data from inside of your office or home? I don't know the answer to that question, but I have a guess at the answer to another question: "is it okay for a private company to create a geodatabase of SSID strings that were freely and willingly broadcast via radio?" I think the answer is "yes". Ten, fifteen years ago, if there were an HN story about how I, ow…

When you use their service your forfeit your privacy.

You don't even need to use their services, interested crowdsourcers will map your router and help build a SSID:location database just for fun. https://www.wigle.net/

Re: How does Google know where I am?

#63

Post by dragonwriter »

xapata wrote: post #61
kuschku wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, then it’d also be legal if I stand near all schools, and photograph every child with a telezoom lens, follow each of them home, and then publish a website with photos of every child and where they live? If they don’t want to be seen, they can just stop broadcasting their face and wear a burqa, right? There is a huge difference between "publicly available in every case seperately" and "publicly indexable". EDIT: I…

Yes, that probably is a legal activity. However, someone could sue for a restraining order. After that, and possibly further lawsuits, that activity would become illegal for you. The possibilities of human behavior are infinite. We don't need to and can't enumerate all possible bad behaviors as illegal. Thus the civil court system. On the second thought, I think there's some law against publishing images of people wi…

> Yes, that probably is a legal activity. However, someone could sue for a restraining order.

A restraining order is issued for either actually illegal activity, or for activity whose legal status is in dispute, and which would irreparably negatively impact a party in the case in which it that status was in dispute, or for activity which might straddle the line of legality but which is related to a broader pattern of activity which was found to be illegal.

Its not done for specifically legal activity.

> The possibilities of human behavior are infinite. We don't need and can't enumerate all possible bad behaviors as illegal. Thus the civil court system.

The civil court system is for addressing things which are illegal -- violations of the law -- but which are not violation of criminal law. The civil court system applies those things prohibited in civil law, it does not substitute for having laws to determine what is prohibited.

Re: How does Google know where I am?

#64

Post by Viper007Bond »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #47
awalGarg wrote: post #9

From the comments section of the top-voted answer: > Something you didn't mention: when a Google-car goes around taking pictures for StreetView it also maps the location and all wifi networks name. So taking a new router with a new network name from a different ISP might work, but only until they come near your house to update their pictures... > - Bakuriu I am not sure how this makes me feel :-|

I think I'm just going to start using a hiden wifi network.

Does that actually do anything? I thought it was trivial to detect those.

Re: How does Google know where I am?

#65

Post by xiaoma »

pawadu wrote: post #10
pawadu wrote: post #5

This is not tower triangulation. Android searches for access points even when wifi is turned off. If anyone (with GPS enabled) uses that wifi with any google services the bssid will end up in their database. Also if the google car has been nearby it has recorded the presence of the wifi access point at that location [1]. Before you freak out: Apple and Microsoft also use access point information for positioning, alth…

This raises another imprtant question: Is it okay for a private company to have detailed positioning data from inside of your office or home? Who would really need that sort of information? I understand how this can be useful at the mall but I think I can find my way around my own house thank you.

~

Re: How does Google know where I am?

#66

Post by paavokoya »

DominikR wrote: post #46
paavokoya wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

minimum standards of knowledge required for the citizens Do you know how the electricity in your wall works? What about the plumbing under your house? Would you be able to fix those things on your own?

His argument was that you can reasonably expect people to know how to handle such technologies safely, not that he expects people to know how to build a WiFi Router from electronic parts themselves. Using your analogy it would be sufficient for a person to know how to handle electricity coming from your wall or the plumbing under your house safely. And generally people do know how to do that. Everyone who is regularl…

I think the advanced users of HN vastly over-estimate the common sense level of the general public.

http://qz.com/333313/milliions-of-facebook-users-have-no-ide...

Re: How does Google know where I am?

#67

Post by mike-cardwell »

Viper007Bond wrote: post #64
Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I'm just going to start using a hiden wifi network.

Does that actually do anything? I thought it was trivial to detect those.

It does do something yes. The complete opposite of what you want.

When a modern phone connects to a non-hidden wifi access point for the first time, it remembers it can connect to that and passively listens for it to announce it's self in future.

When a modern phone connects to a hidden wifi access point for the first time, it remembers that it can connect to that access point, and also that it wont receive any announcements about it's presence in future. So how does it auto-connect in future? By constantly shouting "ARE YOU THERE HIDDEN ACCESS POINT NAMED FOO?". Making you even easier to track.

Re: How does Google know where I am?

#68

Post by Sir_Cmpwn »

mike-cardwell wrote: post #67
Viper007Bond wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that actually do anything? I thought it was trivial to detect those.

It does do something yes. The complete opposite of what you want. When a modern phone connects to a non-hidden wifi access point for the first time, it remembers it can connect to that and passively listens for it to announce it's self in future. When a modern phone connects to a hidden wifi access point for the first time, it remembers that it can connect to that access point, and also that it wont receive any annou…

Can the auto-connect be turned off? Perhaps scripted to try when your GPS coordinates get close enough to your house?

Re: How does Google know where I am?

#69

Post by mike-cardwell »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #68
mike-cardwell wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does do something yes. The complete opposite of what you want. When a modern phone connects to a non-hidden wifi access point for the first time, it remembers it can connect to that and passively listens for it to announce it's self in future. When a modern phone connects to a hidden wifi access point for the first time, it remembers that it can connect to that access point, and also that it wont receive any annou…

Can the auto-connect be turned off? Perhaps scripted to try when your GPS coordinates get close enough to your house?

A device could be made to work that way. I'm not aware of any that have that feature built in. You could certainly use something like Llama to turn wifi on or off depending on where you are located, but that isn't quite what you asked for. I don't know if Android or iOS have APIs available for an app to automatically add/remove wifi networks, but if they do, then that would be useful for achieving what you suggest.

Re: How does Google know where I am?

#70

Post by qntty »

xiaoma wrote: post #65
pawadu wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This raises another imprtant question: Is it okay for a private company to have detailed positioning data from inside of your office or home? Who would really need that sort of information? I understand how this can be useful at the mall but I think I can find my way around my own house thank you.

~

GP meant private-sector company
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