I Used to Be a Human Being • Hacker News Board

Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#211

Post by elliotec » Thu, Sep 22, 2016, 4:23 PM UTC

kp1234321 wrote: post #161

pmoriarty wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have complained about the loss of authenticity for much longer than the internet (much less social media) has been around. It happens around any time of great change. We happen to be living through a period of some of the fastest changes in human history, so it's not surprising a lot of people are confused and feel like they've lost something.

> We happen to be living through a period of some of the fastest changes in human history Couldn't this have been said accurately at just about every point in human history? I'm not asking to try and refute what you said - I think that supports the first point you made. The world is always changing at an exponential rate and we are always on the curve, so people will continue to lament loss of the past until the end…

Not necessarily - before the industrial revolution the pace of change was very very very slow comparatively. In fact, our rate of change now is pretty slow and minor compared to the changes during the time that Victoria was the queen of England.

Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#212

Post by stnmtn » Thu, Sep 22, 2016, 4:48 PM UTC

marmot777 wrote: post #198

stnmtn wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was reading a book a couple weeks ago and there was a throwaway line that really stuck out to me. I think it was a David Foster Wallace book It was something like all the great themes are taken. We've taken all the great themes and adventures and created theme parks where you can go to experience a fantasy yet know this isn't real. You know it's not authentic. I'm butchering the meaning of it, wish I could figure o…

If it's new to me then why should I care? Why is new ipso facto good? And what are some examples of theme parks? I know a lot of people who go out in the wilderness any chance they get but if that's not your thing, there are plenty of ways to get right to the basics even in day to day life. And if novelty is what you're seeking, anything new to you is novel. You're not the first person to climb a mountain but if it's…

You're right, I was born with the Internet and grew up with it as a constant. Some of my earliest memories are literally of those ugly gray 90's computers.

It's not about quitting the internet to get 'back to basics' (although doing that is incredibly beneficial for me), it's about this weird feeling where you are forced to accept that the enormity of human knowledge is available in your pocket at all times, but it's not going to really change things for you. I know I'm coming off as a cynical, negative person, but I'm just trying to explain, as a person who doesn't remember a time before email, what it feels like trying to be Authentic with a capital A.

It's actually not hard and I think most people really truly are authentically themselves even in this new age, but it's different in a way that's hard to put a finger on. An authentic person who grew up with the Internet can't be authentic in the same way as a person who grew up before the internet.

Maybe I'm projecting, and maybe it's just a generational thing but I don't think it can be stressed enough how different the last 20 years have been

Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#213

Post by stnmtn » Thu, Sep 22, 2016, 4:53 PM UTC

marmot777 wrote: post #199

stnmtn wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What have we lost? In my opinion, a big part of it is the illusion that people are more than just people With the internet, we've been able to confirm that everyone is, more or less, just like us. You can see this especially in up and coming new media stars. They use self deprecation as a crutch and irony is really funny. The internet released a hall of mirrors on society and now the illusion of authenticity is broke…

I'm not following the celebrity bit. You're saying we are seeing through the illusion of authenticity because of a wall of mirrors released by the Internet? I get that it's a metaphor but I don't understand what you're getting at. What's your definition of real? I ask because when I think of single speed bikes, the first thing that comes to mind isn't real, it's what a pain in the ass. Just because it's a throwback d…

There's almost a crabs in the bucket type thing that is really obvious to see when a person becomes successful. People start to dredge up all the shitty things in their past. MLK was an adulterer, Mother Theresa was a dick, etc etc. I hope you understand what I mean.

I really enjoy thinking about this stuff, because while it obviously doesn't apply to people at an individual level at all, it's really interesting to see how information overload can affect people en masse

On another note, I think maybe a lot of the cultural-death-by-irony (that phrase is overstating it, but it gets the point across) stuff I'm saying is better shown in a movie called The Comedy with Tim Heidecker, which is a movie that is just about what the fuck 'Post-Irony' is and why it's a scary thing

Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#214

Post by marmot777 » Thu, Sep 22, 2016, 6:07 PM UTC

stnmtn wrote: post #213

marmot777 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not following the celebrity bit. You're saying we are seeing through the illusion of authenticity because of a wall of mirrors released by the Internet? I get that it's a metaphor but I don't understand what you're getting at. What's your definition of real? I ask because when I think of single speed bikes, the first thing that comes to mind isn't real, it's what a pain in the ass. Just because it's a throwback d…

There's almost a crabs in the bucket type thing that is really obvious to see when a person becomes successful. People start to dredge up all the shitty things in their past. MLK was an adulterer, Mother Theresa was a dick, etc etc. I hope you understand what I mean. I really enjoy thinking about this stuff, because while it obviously doesn't apply to people at an individual level at all, it's really interesting to s…

I do get what you're saying but I think it's not a useful place to focus your attention. I'm not a fan of being a dick, though I sometimes am one, nor a fan of adultury, that said I devote no bandwidth to hand wringing about MLK's personal life, Mother Theresa's temperament.

Under that much scrutiny, you can find a lot of dirt about any human being. Not useful.

Yeah, irony has amplified the whole nihilism thing. I'm fine with irony if used in moderation not as a way of life.

Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#215

Post by marmot777 » Thu, Sep 22, 2016, 6:19 PM UTC

stnmtn wrote: post #212

marmot777 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's new to me then why should I care? Why is new ipso facto good? And what are some examples of theme parks? I know a lot of people who go out in the wilderness any chance they get but if that's not your thing, there are plenty of ways to get right to the basics even in day to day life. And if novelty is what you're seeking, anything new to you is novel. You're not the first person to climb a mountain but if it's…

You're right, I was born with the Internet and grew up with it as a constant. Some of my earliest memories are literally of those ugly gray 90's computers. It's not about quitting the internet to get 'back to basics' (although doing that is incredibly beneficial for me), it's about this weird feeling where you are forced to accept that the enormity of human knowledge is available in your pocket at all times, but it's…

You lucky bastard. I had to use an Apple IIe and walk to school 10 miles in the snow. I didn't even know what the weather was going to be without looking out the window. Hard times. I'm kidding of course, people are people, Internet or no Internet. An Apple and afternoon kung fu movies were sufficient.

I wasn't suggesting a person quit the Internet. No fucking way. You'll take my Internet from my cold, dead hands or Comcast will drop the ball on my connection. I just know people who aren't jacked in all the time, going out hiking in the wilderness, doing Yoga, running long distances, drinking too much, playing pictionary, reading sf, etc.

It's hard to get down to authentic. That's ego death. But I'd say you're yourself always and everywhere, just maybe adjusting to the situation. I'm not really presenting myself the same way discussing politics with a right winger than I am in the grocery store checkout line. So I'd say you're authentic, I'm authentic, even if we don't remember a world before the Internet. Lucky bastard!

Btw, honestly, I still don't understand what authentic means?

Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#216

Post by marmot777 » Thu, Sep 22, 2016, 6:24 PM UTC

Acanthae wrote: post #208

marmot777 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do people survive without Facebook? How do I keep up with what everyone's up to? Sure, there's a lot of mindless posting on there but for me the good outweighs the bad.

You just do. When I deleted my Facebook, I lost friends. But if my friendship with someone relies on my having a Facebook then, well, fuck them. I text people or call. I also don't need to know what everyone is up to, either. They can tell me when we talk or hang out. Coincidentally, the friends I lost where the type of people who are on their phones the entire time we hung out, so I don't consider it much of a loss.…

Yeah, if they were just upfront about privacy and changes and the implications, I'd be a happier user. But now that Zuckerberg is doing something pretty damn cool (the medical research project), actually, it sort of makes up for past privacy sins. :-)

Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#217

Post by marmot777 » Thu, Sep 22, 2016, 6:31 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #207

marmot777 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My son, like all 4 year olds I think, are fully human, in tune with the moment, developing ego but still open. I picked my son up from school and we were playing, then I reached for my phone, noticing the shift in his facial expression from happy to subtle concern and disappointment. He knows that device creates distance in real life. Then we discussed some topic that I decided could be better handled by Youtube. As…

I like your set of principles. Many people seem to polarize on their issues; either they're falling for the "digital crack", or they treat this as unnatural and will get angry if you so much as look at your phone when in their presence. Principle 1 is fortunately widely recognized. Laws and social pressure seem to be doing a good job enforcing this principle even on people who for some reason don't recognize it on th…

I agree with you on the social signaling. If you're on your phone with someone else and they're cool with you chatting while you do something else then that's cool, of course. The spirit of item 2 was more when it's not cool.

One principle 1 I 100% agree with the disapproval. Studies show that the distraction of talking on a cell while driving is present whether the driver uses hands free or not. Given the data, it's appropriate to express disapproval of this activity just as it's appropriate to express disapproval at someone talking about how they drove drunk. Though to be fair to drunks, I think distracted drivers kill more people now but I could be wrong.

Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#218

Post by marmot777 » Thu, Sep 22, 2016, 6:35 PM UTC

wutbrodo wrote: post #165

sliverstorm wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been going around and around on notifications. If sound is enabled, my phone interrupts me for trivial things & spam. If only notification is enabled, I constantly pick up my phone to see if I have email. If nothing is enabled, I unlock my phone & open my email app to see if I have email- less frequent, but more likely to get sucked in. None of these things are good.

Why not just turn off all notifications but e-mail (or at least make them silent), and then only set audible notifications for emails that match a filter? There will undoubtedly be false positives and negatives in any such filter, but it seems like it would enable you to open the email app to check email far less often.

I like the filter idea then that woman you've been waiting to hear back from and whomever else, then that reduces the attention shifting thing except when it's worth it. Man, he's lucky his poison is email. It's the perfect medium to ignore for hours, well, unless it's something good.

Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#219

Post by marmot777 » Thu, Sep 22, 2016, 6:52 PM UTC

Acanthae wrote: post #208

marmot777 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do people survive without Facebook? How do I keep up with what everyone's up to? Sure, there's a lot of mindless posting on there but for me the good outweighs the bad.

You just do. When I deleted my Facebook, I lost friends. But if my friendship with someone relies on my having a Facebook then, well, fuck them. I text people or call. I also don't need to know what everyone is up to, either. They can tell me when we talk or hang out. Coincidentally, the friends I lost where the type of people who are on their phones the entire time we hung out, so I don't consider it much of a loss.…

Oh and please, please Facebook implement Markdown. I'd never complain about Facebook again. Probably.

Re: I Used to Be a Human Being

#220

Post by marmot777 » Thu, Sep 22, 2016, 8:28 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #206

marmot777 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're actually lucky that email's your poison. It's the most aync mode out there, especially if people adjust to not receiving an immediate response. I have friends that have trained me not to expect an immediate response to texts so I know it's possible to use text more async for everything that's not urgent. If not responding immediately is your default, it's not a break from your normal behavior to delay. I'd lik…

Yeah, I've taught pretty much everyone I know that I answer messages at random, but I'm instantly reachable in an emergency. A big part of that was also teaching people that I rarely pick up the phone - if it's important, they can text me, and I'll happily call back. The way I see it, people will communicate with you the way you allow; if you let everyone expect that you're always available, you'll be spammed with tr…

LOL. I had a problem like that with my ex, we'd have massive fights conducted 100% through text. I'd complaint to friends about how out of hand it was getting. More than one person suggested why don't you just not respond? It hadn't even occurred to me as an option. It seems like common sense but there's no obligation to respond immediately or at all to a text or any other channel when it's going down a path that's not ideal or if you'd prefer another channel or IRL to continue the discussion. Text has to be THE WORST place to attempt a serious conversation of any sort, email is about as bad, phone's a big improvement, face-to-face is where it's at ideally.