It sounds to me like it would be quite trivial to run Linux on this laptop, just by treating the "RAID" mode PCI ID like AHCI and employing the regular driver. I believe Linux supports forcing the use of a driver for a PCI device.
Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems
231–240 of 257 posts
Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems
#232Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Dear god, am I supposed to care about the shareholders now? People don't buy products out of empathy for shareholders. No. People buy Lenovo because many reasons, but not because of empathy... or because their friendliness to Linux. And, by the way, you still don't get it. You're not the one to decide on behalf of Lenovo what's reasonable for them to do, unless you're their CEO. You can say this or that is reasonab…
> People buy Lenovo because many reasons, but not because of empathy... or because their friendliness to Linux. Lenovo's Linux compatibility has been a selling point for Linux users from what I've gathered talking to people and reading forums (see for example [0]). It was one of the reasons I bought a Lenovo. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11503951
Yup, along with the lovely trackpoint and generally high build quality, it's why I used to buy and recommend ThinkPads. But after all of their nonsense over the last year or so I'm done with Lenovo. It's going to take them a long time to win back my business.
For all that, I'm not suggesting for a moment that I believe this is part of some grand conspiracy to persecute Linux users. This is just another dumb, short-sighted decision by Lenovo that results in them trying to sell semi-broken hardware.
Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
> And please, keep it civil. There's no need to call me troll just because you don't understand business. I agree that that wasn't civil, but there's nothing civil about this side-swipe either. Please don't do that.
You are 100% right, my apologies to Hydraulix989, HN users that had to read that and yourself.
No worries, it takes a lot to offend me! :-)
Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wow. Man, come on. The disturbing level of contempt is almost the sole property of the "Linux == Freedom" crowd. I mean seriously, the level of outrage about systemd alone is off the rails. Bring up Microsoft and I'm somehow complicit in oppressing people because I use their software? (But somehow the rare earth minerals in devices and the contributions to modern electronics of the defense budget don't somehow make u…
> The disturbing level of contempt is almost the sole property of the "Linux == Freedom" crowd. That's patently incorrect and you know it. FYI: You're showing that kind of contempt right now. My point isn't even related strongly to Free Software; it was an observation that a lot of people don't like early warning systems, which is bad for security . Shooting the messenger when they bring a warning of a possible threa…
>If there is a point to this word salad, I am not parsing it. It seems off topic?
The point I took from this is that people who believe they're fighting for freedom in and through software only care about freedom for rich (in a global measure) people who live in developed nations and are happy to ignore the much larger quantity of people worldwide who live under far more restrictive and harsh circumstances.
Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Or, alternatively, they removed a firmware setting that makes their hardware work less well Why would they remove it? Removing it requires effort, which hardware companies are loath to do. Leave the system in its actual supported state and change the default. Easy. There's only so many ways you can slip and slide on this Matthew ;-).
Hardware that works better = better sales, more money, less support cost? There's only so many ways you can slip and slide on this ;-).
> Hardware that works better = better sales, more money, less support cost?
Utter bullshit. The hardware doesn't work better - it works in the same way that AHCI systems with a single disk have done in the past. This is not going to increase sales, as is obvious to anyone with half an ounce of sense, it won't make more money as a result and it will be lovely to see their support when people clone disks and realise the on-disk RAID format isn't compatible ;-).
But you know, slip and slide ;-).
Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why wouldn't they? You find out all sorts of things when you work for a company, strangely enough.
what and then blow your companies secret position on a response to a user query, knowing that if found it would very likely endanger your continued employment with that company.... You honestly think that's more likely than, someone made a mistake or said something to close a support call???
The statement is there in black and white and it is as crystal clear and unequivocal as you can get.
Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
Every other chipset and motherboard in existence has had that option and it hasn't affected anyone adversely. There is no less of two evils. There isn't any evils here.
That's not what the article claims. Apparently there are indeed two evils here: Lower performance for everyone or no drivers for Linux. I take you know more than the article's author, in which case I'd be interested in reading your analysis as I'm not an expert.
There is no way that using a fake RAID set of drivers and a completely incompatible and more complex on-disk RAID format is going to increase performance in any way.
There's a reason why that hasn't been done on any system in the past - because it's stupid and fake RAID drivers are notoriously buggy and require support from cloning and other low level software that gets used.
Yer, you're not an expert, or appear to know anything about hardware.
Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because providing that option doesn't give anyone sub-par drivers? Also, the power saving stuff is bollocks. I never thought I would see the day when anyone would recommend using a bullshit fake RAID driver for power saving reasons.
Please refer to my other response to you. It would be awesome to read your analysis of the drivers and the underlying hardware. I base my opinion on what experts call facts as I'm not a hardware expert myself.
It would be awesome if you knew what you were talking about ;-).
Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not Secure Boot - yet. But this is what you're going to find - obsolescence depending on built-in hardware driver support. Not only are you not getting Linux installed on here but Windows 7, or any future version of Windows that does not have this driver built for it. You'll then have to throw the hardware away. No, it wasn't a bullshit statement from a rep - it was a very clear statement from a rep, in black an…
>No, it wasn't a bullshit statement from a rep - it was a very clear statement from a rep, in black and white, that has not been retracted or clarified by Lenovo in any way. It's always funny when people choose not to believe verbatim statements and explanations put right in front of them. Literally nothing about this sentence is correct. Support reps know nothing , and nameless support reps that throw out statements…
> Literally nothing about this sentence is correct.
Sorry, but literally everything about it is correct. What a great adjective.
> Support reps know nothing, and nameless support reps that throw out statements like that with no explanation
Errrrr, no. Support reps do not throw out incredible specific, crystal clear and precise statements like that unless they're true. This doesn't come out of nowhere.
>I can't believe I'm having to explain this on Hacker News.
Your working life must be pretty interesting if that's you're attitude to every crystal clear, unequivocal and precise statement you read ;-).
> no, it's not some bullshit conspiracy
No, it's not. An extremely clear statements has been made that is not open to misinterpretation.
> Plus, you know, you could read Matthew's blog post (the HN link that we're commenting on...) that explains this as well.
I have, and true to form, it doesn't. As usual we get someone who wants to tell us that black is white and that a manufacturer miraculously using buggy fake RAID drivers is now the done thing. For performance. Or power management. Or whatever the reason happens to be.
Re: Microsoft aren't forcing Lenovo to block free operating systems
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not Secure Boot - yet. But this is what you're going to find - obsolescence depending on built-in hardware driver support. Not only are you not getting Linux installed on here but Windows 7, or any future version of Windows that does not have this driver built for it. You'll then have to throw the hardware away. No, it wasn't a bullshit statement from a rep - it was a very clear statement from a rep, in black an…
>No, it wasn't a bullshit statement from a rep - it was a very clear statement from a rep, in black and white, that has not been retracted or clarified by Lenovo in any way. It's always funny when people choose not to believe verbatim statements and explanations put right in front of them. Literally nothing about this sentence is correct. Support reps know nothing , and nameless support reps that throw out statements…
Adverb..... Bloody auto-complete.....