Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop • Hacker News Board

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#201

Post by pjmlp » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 10:35 AM UTC

js8 wrote: post #169

pjmlp wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IBM PC was made open by Compaq in 1981 not late 70's, IBM would rather had it closed as the Commodore, Spectrum, Atari, Amiga, Acorn, Mac were.

Just a nitpick - Spectrum was pretty open (at least if we are talking about 48/128). My father bought us Spectrum specifically because it was more open than alternatives (Atari or Commodore), and he later bought the PC for the same reason (and I would never buy a Mac for the same reason). Unlike its competitors, Spectrum had standard phone jack connectors for sound and magnetic tape recorder (so you could use any rec…

Not if we are talking about installing alternative OS into it.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#202

Post by vu3rdd » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 10:36 AM UTC

dewiz wrote: post #42

Maybe someone can help me understanding. Why is it OK to lock down smartphones, TV devices, consoles, but not OK for PCs?

> Why is it OK to lock down smartphones, TV devices, consoles, but not OK for PCs?

IMHO, it is not OK to lock down things you own. I have been a victim. I bought an AppleTV v2 and a planned obsolescence by Apple and Google rendered it useless (with a YouTube API version requirement).

PCs are special in that, they are general purpose devices and not appliances. If you are using it as an appliance, chances are, you are not interested in running another operating system on it.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#203

Post by rvense » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 10:36 AM UTC

alphadevx wrote: post #122

Get a Developer Edition XPS 13 from Dell instead, comes with Linux pre-installed. I have one and they are awesome, if manufacturers support Linux they get my $.

I got one of these from work. It's pretty great. Still sticking to my ThinkPad X201s for home use, though, much better keyboard.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#204

Post by crdoconnor » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 10:39 AM UTC

colemickens wrote: post #16

Which is more likely? That Lenovo shipped a crappy BIOS, like plenty of OEMs have done before? Or that Microsoft is engaging in a covert conspiracy to block Linux users via forcing Lenovo to put the HD into Intel RST mode rather than ACHI? It just doesn't make a bit of sense. If Microsoft wanted to block Linux, they would just require that SecureBoot not be disabled and require disablement of user key enrollment. Bes…

>It just doesn't make a bit of sense. If Microsoft wanted to block Linux, they would just require that SecureBoot not be disabled and require disablement of user key enrollment.

Their modus operandi is to violate their antitrust agreement with the DOJ as non-obviously as possible with a nod and a wink and funnel campaign contributions to the relevant parties. If it becomes too blatant, however, the DOJ will be forced to punish them.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#205

Post by akx » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 10:40 AM UTC

rndgermandude wrote: post #199

coldtea wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So they did lie when they said "Microsoft Loves Linux". No, the title and "secret agreement" theory is just BS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor > Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. MS hasn't been the boss of anyone much ever since 2005 or so... http://www.paulgraham.com/microsoft.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/APIWar.html

Then why did a Lenovo employee say there is an agreement? http://imgur.com/a/niewu

They might be misguided. Until there's an official announcement one way or another, I wouldn't pay too much attention to some random Lenovo customer service guy.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#206

Post by Fice » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 10:40 AM UTC

0x0 wrote: post #20

So they did lie when they said "Microsoft Loves Linux". https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/windowsserver/2015/05/06... Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

They do not love or hate Linux, open source, or anything, they just do whatever makes more money. It's business.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#207

Post by mikkom » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 10:41 AM UTC

xg15 wrote: post #47

The other HN thread suggests this not actually a dark conspiracy by Microsoft but simply a case of missing linux drivers for the storage devices. This sounds believable to me. But I'll put my tinfoil hat on just for fun and pretend it was an intentional move. Could this make sense as a new twist on the old strategy, making it "Embrace, Extinguish, Extend"? With the WSL, they made it theoretically possible to run Linu…

I think it was confirmed that the computer is locked to windows due to ms/lenovo contract

http://imgur.com/a/niewu

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#208

Post by pjmlp » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 10:42 AM UTC

eth0up wrote: post #123

kelnos wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still a bit flabbergasted: you really truly believe that disallowing installing Linux on a particular brand/model of laptop is directly comparable to the forced labor and extermination of millions of Jewish people during WW2?

I reluctantly comment here, but.. The misuse of technology (see: end of encryption; end of privacy; end of freedom; slippery slopes, etc.) could (by my perspective) lead to massive problems, including political/ideological persecution. However, "directly comparable" it probably isn't, yet. If (IF) a time comes when the only software available is proprietary, restrictive, invasive and possibly insecure, in a world whe…

> If (IF) a time comes when the only software available is proprietary

You mean like up to the late 90's when most of us used to pay for software?

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#209

Post by lemagedurage » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 10:42 AM UTC

jewbacca wrote: post #129

Piskvorrr wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. Hello again MS, for a moment I was getting worried about you straying from your proven strategy.

Seriously. If this does turn out to be intentional on Microsoft's part, then there goes every last shred of trust and goodwill they've spent the last 10 years rebuilding. (and, honestly, were finally succeeding at, to the point where I'm very close to willing to give them the benefit of the doubt here: how the hell could the benefits of such a thing come anywhere near to outweighing the amount of damage it would do?)

10 years?

I remember the lawsuit against TomTom in 2009, because they used the FAT32 filesystem through open source drivers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Corp._v._TomTom_Inc.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#210

Post by paulintrognon » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 10:43 AM UTC

The worst part is the reaction from Lenovo in my opinion. They just locked the thread reporting the issue on their forum, not saying anything about the problem itself but instead threatened the community to turn the pre-approval option on. This really makes me angry and makes me want to boycott their products. I really hope this issue will spread so that Lenovo learn that they made a bad move on this one.

It also made me realize how important it is to have a community on which one can rely to spread problems like this one. Several people on their own can't do much against big companies, but a big tech commnity can.