Classic Microsoft. Their supposed FOSS turn is an obvious trap. Trust them at your own peril.
Remains to be seen if Microsoft actually is behind the problems at all, or is it just a thoughtless implementation in BIOS/hardware side.
Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop
141–150 of 494 posts
Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop
#142Which is more likely? That Lenovo shipped a crappy BIOS, like plenty of OEMs have done before? Or that Microsoft is engaging in a covert conspiracy to block Linux users via forcing Lenovo to put the HD into Intel RST mode rather than ACHI? It just doesn't make a bit of sense. If Microsoft wanted to block Linux, they would just require that SecureBoot not be disabled and require disablement of user key enrollment. Bes…
That's just what THEY want you to think!!!11
Seriously, though-. If Microsoft blocked Linux overtly, they probably couldn't get away with it so easily; they'd end up with a PR disaster and/or an antitrust lawsuit. Plausible deniability helps them; now you can bet some people are going to say "come on, firmware screw-ups are no news, what are you, some kind of conspiracy theorist?" I mean, they have already taken advantage of ACPI in this way once.
(Tongue in cheek. It's not so totally implausible.)
Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
Something like tradition. The IBM PC has been an "open" system since the late 70's. Tablets etc (palmtops!) started appearing in the 90's, and were walled gardens from the get go.
IBM PC was made open by Compaq in 1981 not late 70's, IBM would rather had it closed as the Commodore, Spectrum, Atari, Amiga, Acorn, Mac were.
You're both wrong. The IBM PC was made by IBM in 1981 and it was absolutely not open. (Just hurriedly implemented using commodity parts so, other than the BIOS, it was pretty easy and legal to copy most of it) Then Compaq came along in 1982 and sold a clone of it... and in some ways it was even less open than the IBM. Neither one of those companies had any interest in the PC being 'open'.
It was the 3rd party suppliers (i.e. BIOS by companies like Phoenix, Award, AMI along with motherboard manufacturers etc.) selling picks and shovels to the would-be prospectors (i.e. clone assemblers) that allowed for the 'open' PC standard. For example, there was a company call PCs Limited that licensed AMI BIOS so that they make some IBM clones... they did kind of OK and soon renamed themselves Dell...
Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop
#144The other HN thread suggests this not actually a dark conspiracy by Microsoft but simply a case of missing linux drivers for the storage devices. This sounds believable to me. But I'll put my tinfoil hat on just for fun and pretend it was an intentional move. Could this make sense as a new twist on the old strategy, making it "Embrace, Extinguish, Extend"? With the WSL, they made it theoretically possible to run Linu…
> some if the more consumer-oriented parts of the Linux ecosystem
I'm scratching my head here. Help me out. I've seen extremely limited consumer take-up of desktop Linux.
Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
I reluctantly comment here, but.. The misuse of technology (see: end of encryption; end of privacy; end of freedom; slippery slopes, etc.) could (by my perspective) lead to massive problems, including political/ideological persecution. However, "directly comparable" it probably isn't, yet. If (IF) a time comes when the only software available is proprietary, restrictive, invasive and possibly insecure, in a world whe…
The question that pops up into my mind is: what steps preceed such a world? Microsoft blocking installs of Linux on computers that I own, seems one of those steps to me.
I suspect a three-letter agency or two may be taking some steps, certainly not impaired by telemetry, backdoors or hording vulnerabilities - all of which I sort of prefer to try and avoid by using the OS and configuration of my choice.
Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop
#146I have been a long time ThinkPad user and recently purchased my latest ThinkPad T460p. Sadly it has some issues, the latest NVidia drivers don't work on the device but I'm forced to use the 1 year old driver that Lenovo provides in their packages. Figuring this out took my several days of trouble shooting (only dx9 was affected). Also the system fan is constantly running. I went to their support site and the online s…
Ha, same problem here with an ideapad z500 and Linux Mint, latest NVidia drivers prevent my laptop from booting. Now I have to resort to XServer and adjusting brightness via the command line: xrandr --output LVDS1 --brightness 1.0
But hell it's a great laptop for its price.
Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is worth saying that for most things, you buy them in the state they're in - there's no "right" to openness, as much as we might want it. Just because you own a house, doesn't mean you can just put a 6 storey extension in the garden. Then tension is that we've almost always been able to install Linux on standard Windows machines and so have gotten used to it being open, but I'd be loathed to say (if the manufacturers…
> there's no "right" to openness But there is a right not to buy this stuff and a right to tell other people not to buy it, too. There is also a right to tell the vendors how much you abhor them for selling such closed products and there is a right to tell journalists or other people why buying closed products is a really bad idea. And you have a right to lobby to make producing/buying closed products socially unacce…
Exactly. If you want openness then tell the manufacturers you want openness and people can put their money where their mouths are, however, I still don't believe expecting it as default when exceptionally few people (relatively speaking) ever have or will, is an entirely rational thought process.
Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop
#148This was so predictable. And of course, the FSF called it: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/secure-boot-vs-restricted-boot
It's so predictable that people would run with conspiracy theories that make no sense and link to things that are completely unrelated. The "issue" that came up today in this article has absolutely nothing to do with SecureBoot.
Microsoft has already used SecureBoot to lock out Linux 'offer better security' on their phones and tablets. Is it really such a stretch for people to be afraid that they're going to require desktop/laptop vendors to leave SecureBoot on in the future? (and conveniently only recognize the key for Windows?)
Probably our best saving grace against that is how rapidly mobile is cannibalizing the desktop/laptop market. Probably not even worth the antitrust probes in Europe to attempt that anymore.
But I don't blame people for being immensely skeptical given Microsoft's actions on mobile. Best case, we're paranoid, PCs end up fine. Worst case, PCs are locked down, and "I told you so" won't help reverse it.
Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop
#149[deleted]
Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop
#150Does anyone own novena or librem? I think they have became worth their prices. They're quite expensive, but you don't have to bother with crap like some day you won't be install Linux or BSD distro because someone loves your hardware too much and want to force you to being spied on.
Are you seriously equating the Novena with Librem? The former is a fully open hardware/software platform built from the ground up with openness and hackability in mind; some assembly required, configure it the way you want to. The latter is a rebranded x86 laptop with Intel's Management Engine firmly embedded and operational; it's a $600 midrange at best laptop being resold with Linux preinstalled for three times the price because it's "open".