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Apple Slaps Developers In The Face

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Re: Apple Slaps Developers In The Face

#91

Post by allyt »

fierarul wrote: post #90
allyt wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have something official, more official than any press release: the developer contract We have Gruber's interpretation of a complex legal document, taken completely out of the context in which "Application" is defined. Lawyers don't get paid big bucks to interpret this stuff for nothing.

They get paid to try and convince a judge or jury that their client's interpretation of the document is the correct one. You think it's a mistake the text is a bit vague and not everything properly defined ? Legal texts aren't software; it's actually in the best interest of Apple to define things as broad and vaguely as possible so they cover a large spectrum. I think Gruber's interpretation is one that any person re…

I think Gruber's interpretation is one that any person reading the document will have.

Not necessarily. See: http://andreyf.tumblr.com/post/508678742/stop-interpreting-l...

Re: Apple Slaps Developers In The Face

#92

Post by stcredzero »

mdasen wrote: post #25

So, there are a couple things here that jump to my mind. 1. Adobe isn't completely innocent. They're pretty close to a monopoly on their type of software and charge dearly for it (their Creative Suite costs as much as a MacBook Pro). They've done a lot to make sure there are no non-Adobe Flash players even when that's just hurting customers and not costing them money since they don't sell the player. They're not exac…

Companies tend to go for openness insofar as it's in their interests.

I've been developing this metaphor while reading and posting to other threads:

    - Companies are like states.  
    - Ownership is like sovereignty
    - Open Source licenses are like constitutions and the rule of law
    - Community processes are like democracy
Totalitarian states can also discover that being open to commerce can be in their interest, but still act coercively when doing so suits them more. Constitutional democracies can be considered safer for business, since it disallows arbitrary actions and ensures due process. By analogy, Open Source platforms can be considered safer for business.

(This doesn't mean that I won't publish on the App Store. But it does mean that I'm going to look at platform diversification as a safety measure! I guess this move by Apple has had the opposite from desired effect in my case.)

Re: Apple Slaps Developers In The Face

#93

Post by elpuri »

apike wrote: post #42
oscardelben wrote: post #24

Are apple employees really forbidden from blogging and posting to social networks?

Of course we aren't. Plenty of Apple employees blog about things other than their jobs.

Of course the question everyone is interested in is are you allowed to publicly comment on / criticize issues like Apple strategy, policies and technologies. So are you?

Re: Apple Slaps Developers In The Face

#94

Post by bad_user »

rimantas wrote: post #51
bad_user wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately they haven't learned the other part of their history that got them almost bankrupted.

That part was about allowing Mac clones and having too long line of the products. Exactly the things Jobs abolished.

No, that part was a strategy to save themselves that didn't work so well because it was too little, too late. Not to mention that they did made a nice profit from that scheme.

Re: Apple Slaps Developers In The Face

#95

Post by apike »

elpuri wrote: post #93
apike wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course we aren't. Plenty of Apple employees blog about things other than their jobs.

Of course the question everyone is interested in is are you allowed to publicly comment on / criticize issues like Apple strategy, policies and technologies. So are you?

I've never experimented with that boundary. Publicly criticizing your employer is unwise and unprofessional no matter who you work for. I don't imagine there are many Fortune 500 companies where you would last very long doing that.

Re: Apple Slaps Developers In The Face

#96

Post by rbanffy »

steveklabnik wrote: post #86
rbanffy wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will assume the down-voter thinks Apple is forcing him to buy a Mac. If you want a Mac, go buy one. You don't need Apple as an excuse. They are very good computers, very well built and have an OS that, IMHO, is second only to a decent Linux box as a development platform. It's so good it breaks my heart to install Linux on top of it. So much in fact I never did it. Except once, when I installed MkLinux on a Power 95…

Nope, you're getting downvoted because your comment doesn't actually add anything to the discussion. Snarky replies aren't (generally) considered valuable here.

Well then, rephrasing the first comment for those who didn't get it, I see no reason to think developers are being forced one way or the other.

As a developer, you choose the platform you intend to use to deliver your application. Nobody is being forced anything. There is a huge potential market outside the App Store.

If you bet the company on Apple's good mood, it's only your fault they pull your app, change the rules of the game and drive you out of business. They own the clients. If you want to sell to their clients, you better be ready do jump when they tell you to. Actually, it's no different than selling to a telco on a platform like Brew.

As a dominant player, Apple not only has to foster the development of killer apps for their platform, they cannot afford killer apps evolving on other platforms. Unless they change course, that's what will happen.

Re: Apple Slaps Developers In The Face

#97

Post by sunchild »

mrkurt wrote: post #55
mdasen wrote: post #25

So, there are a couple things here that jump to my mind. 1. Adobe isn't completely innocent. They're pretty close to a monopoly on their type of software and charge dearly for it (their Creative Suite costs as much as a MacBook Pro). They've done a lot to make sure there are no non-Adobe Flash players even when that's just hurting customers and not costing them money since they don't sell the player. They're not exac…

> Jobs wanted web apps. Developers balked. Web apps would have been cross-platform (at least with Android and webOS). Apple responded to developers and now they've seen their chance to lock users and developers to their system. Jobs didn't want web apps, he wanted no apps. Web apps would have been more than useful given the right js APIs. It wouldn't have done a thing for games, but there's a great deal of stuff you…

Go back and watch the first iPhone keynote. It was all about web apps.

Re: Apple Slaps Developers In The Face

#98

Post by sunchild »

fierarul wrote: post #90
allyt wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have something official, more official than any press release: the developer contract We have Gruber's interpretation of a complex legal document, taken completely out of the context in which "Application" is defined. Lawyers don't get paid big bucks to interpret this stuff for nothing.

They get paid to try and convince a judge or jury that their client's interpretation of the document is the correct one. You think it's a mistake the text is a bit vague and not everything properly defined ? Legal texts aren't software; it's actually in the best interest of Apple to define things as broad and vaguely as possible so they cover a large spectrum. I think Gruber's interpretation is one that any person re…

IAAL. Contracts only matter to the extent and in the manner that they are ENFORCED by the parties to the contract. Everything else is pure speculation and intellectual masturbation...or, in this case, pursuit of an agenda.

Re: Apple Slaps Developers In The Face

#99

Post by sunchild »

Many posters are missing the point here. Apple is heading Adobe off at the pass, so that Flash is not a viable development platform. The fact that the agreement term can be interpreted to prevent umpteen different other cross-platform development environments is only relevant to the extent Apple's agenda includes enforcing the terms against the makers of those environments.

Now, assuming Apple is using this language to defeat the expectation that Flash is viable on the iPhone OS, who really loses? I would argue that elimination of Flash is win for everyone but Adobe, but that's my opinion. Even if you like Flash a lot, you can't fault Apple for not accommodating Adobe given the belligerent history between them.

I guess I just have a hard time mustering sympathy for Flash developers after years of frustrating, shoddy, inconsistent web experiences with Flash. There are a few exceptions (artists like http://yugop.com/ come to mind, as well as the acceleration of online video) but, overall, Flash has been a nightmare for opinionated web users like myself. Good riddance.

Re: Apple Slaps Developers In The Face

#100

Post by philwelch »

rbanffy wrote: post #76
philwelch wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, if Jobs wasn't pushed out in 1985, Apple would have gone bankrupt even faster. Jobs' perfectionism is an asset now that he's let it be ever-so-slightly compromised by market necessities, but the Mac wouldn't have been a viable platform into the 1990's if, as Steve continued to insist, they not include a hard drive or any fans. His same perfectionism over the NeXT cube (and over such details as which shade…

> Jobs' perfectionism is an asset now You know that "too much of a good thing" thing, right?

I would say that's the central message of my post.
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