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Oracle is gunning for AWS with new infrastructure offering

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Re: Oracle is gunning for AWS with new infrastructure offering

#141

Post by vidarh »

merb wrote: post #92
vidarh wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beating AWS on price is trivial, though. If you can't beat AWS on price, you have no business starting a cloud service. So it's a question whether they think they need to beat AWS on price or not. AWS pricing certainly makes it very clear that Amazon have no interest or need to compete on price - a lot of the cloud market is extremely price insensitive. It's a curious effect that seems to be largely down to businesse…

> AWS bandwidth is easily anywhere from 5x to 50x as expensive as elsewhere depending on location Manpower and a Stable network is anywhere from 100x to 1000x as expensive as just hosting on AWS.

That's not my experience. My experience is that operating systems outside of AWS is not much different in terms of staff time than operating systems on AWS, and for most people network availability issues are far down the list of outage reasons.

I've not ever seen any non-AWS setups where manpower or network stability contributed anywhere remotely enough to operations to eat up the cost advantage over hosting elsewhere.

There are good reasons to use AWS, if you can leverage their various services, and hosting isn't a large part of your cost, but price is not it.

Re: Oracle is gunning for AWS with new infrastructure offering

#142

Post by edfxpy »

chaotician wrote: post #16

I would not be surprised if the Oracle offerings turn out to be better than EC2 Oracle has been poaching the core EC2 team from Amazon for years now, in Seattle there are farewell parties every week for another person leaving EC2 to work at Oracle

throwaway

I'm surprised people still aren't aware of the massive talent transfer from AWS to Oracle.

This is much larger than just compute. A constant stream of principles and SDE3s have been moving for well over a year. Most of the senior engineers on my team have moved with 60% raises. I'm just waiting for their non-competes to expire.

Re: Oracle is gunning for AWS with new infrastructure offering

#143

Post by jvolkman »

matt_wulfeck wrote: post #119

Is Oracle paying more for talent than its competitors, namely Google or AWS? Until the answer is "yes" I'm not going to believe their statements about a better cloud. Otherwise they're competing on niche or price, and that's not going to stop the gorilla.

At least compared to AWS, rumors are that the answer has been "hell yes" for a couple of years now.

Re: Oracle is gunning for AWS with new infrastructure offering

#144

Post by dredmorbius »

adventured wrote: post #116
dredmorbius wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting observation, though it raises the obvious responses: 1. What's constraining AWS's growth capacity? Isn't it simply a matter of stamping out AZs and DCs? 2. Why would Amazone create a pricing structure which encourages new entrants into the field? Contrast local retail in which defunct firms continue to sit on, and extend, real-estate leases, strictly to prevent other companies from growing into the market…

> Why would Amazone create a pricing structure which encourages new entrants into the field? Because the primary entrant threats were not going to be dissuaded by low price competition. Specifically Microsoft and Google. Both are hyper cash and income rich and under no circumstances did they want to cede the cloud computing universe to Amazon. Fundamentally it's the exact same reason AWS stopped trying to compete so…

Good answer. That's pretty sound strategy, and clarifies the market for me.

Re: Oracle is gunning for AWS with new infrastructure offering

#146

Post by simtel20 »

stephengillie wrote: post #49
chaotician wrote: post #16

I would not be surprised if the Oracle offerings turn out to be better than EC2 Oracle has been poaching the core EC2 team from Amazon for years now, in Seattle there are farewell parties every week for another person leaving EC2 to work at Oracle

Does this include network-layer personnel? Oracle is talking big about their compute, but it's useless without a robust and dynamic network infrastructure. Since storage fabrics are also networks today, a solid infrastructure is doubly-important, yet some data centers and MSPs seem to struggle with this core competency. * Since they seem to be targeting a hybrid approach, how flexible will they be at building and cus…

They are. They are hiring and paying more for the experience of aws and gce employees to kick start their progress.

Re: Oracle is gunning for AWS with new infrastructure offering

#149

Post by merb »

vidarh wrote: post #141
merb wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AWS bandwidth is easily anywhere from 5x to 50x as expensive as elsewhere depending on location Manpower and a Stable network is anywhere from 100x to 1000x as expensive as just hosting on AWS.

That's not my experience. My experience is that operating systems outside of AWS is not much different in terms of staff time than operating systems on AWS, and for most people network availability issues are far down the list of outage reasons. I've not ever seen any non-AWS setups where manpower or network stability contributed anywhere remotely enough to operations to eat up the cost advantage over hosting elsewhe…

Really you probably never hired people.

Re: Oracle is gunning for AWS with new infrastructure offering

#150

Post by gaius »

serge2k wrote: post #58
richmarr wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EC2 is just part of a larger ecosystem... Exactly. The idea that Oracle can catch up based on pricing & machine specs ("36 CPU cores, 512GB of D-RAM") is really naive. My current position on this is that IaaS is pretty much over. Aliyun & AWS seem like they're going to dominate. Microsoft & Google & others fight for the rest. Maybe, just maybe, Oracle will catch up with the 'small' players, but I doubt Microsoft++…

Is Aliyun that big?

Big in China, and China is big... Believe they are 4th largest overall at the moment but who can keep up with the ever changing league tables? I am planning to kick the tyres on them this weekend actually.
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