Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad • Hacker News Board

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#91

Post by MichaelGG » Fri, Apr 09, 2010, 5:41 PM UTC

rimantas wrote: post #85

rimantas wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yesterday it was access to the filesystem, things that run in the background, etc. No, yesterday they did add the things that run in background. Flash compiler being a fundamental technique in computer science? Please…

Ok, correction: yesterday they introduced iPhone OS 4 with background services. How Flash is fundamental in CS is still a mystery to me.

You misread. The point is that compilers are fundamental to CS, and barring things like a Flash compiler is vile.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#92

Post by vorador » Fri, Apr 09, 2010, 5:43 PM UTC

jfoutz wrote: post #40

tptacek wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm puzzled, since Apple has been shutting off fundamental techniques in computer science since day one. Today it's Flash compilers. Yesterday it was access to the filesystem, things that run in the background, etc.

I half agree. The filesystem is just a device. No running in the background is kinda icky, but that doesn't seem like a computer science kinda thing. (not that multitasking isn't hard, it's just not the first thing that jumps to mind when thinking of simulating things on a turing machine) Language to language translation, that's core. that's fundamental to CS. The most popular virtual machine ever is the regular expr…

By the way, the sh source were written like that because the original author missed algol, iirc.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#93

Post by MichaelGG » Fri, Apr 09, 2010, 5:45 PM UTC

akmiller wrote: post #81

tptacek wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I will use my operating system monopoly to put you out of business if you don't assist me in putting an unrelated competitor of ours out of business" is worse to you than "you may only use Objective C to develop on this device"? I don't like Objective C either, but I don't take it that far.

Microsoft, as all companies would, is going to use their successful product(s) to push other products that they create. They had 95%+ of the OS market and simply wanted to push the use of their browser to those individuals. That doesn't and never has seemed like a dirty tactic to me. Apple pushes its own products over its competitors on the iPhone. You won't see Opera on the default dock bar on the iPhone anytime soo…

Well, Windows Phone 7 only allows verified CLI bytecode apps, which practically speaking means Firefox won't be compiling for it anytime soon.

But MS doesn't care how you compile, just as long as the bytecode checks out safe.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#94

Post by vetinari » Fri, Apr 09, 2010, 5:49 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #18

peterarmstrong wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make it anything short of disgusting -- it's worse than anything MS ever did.

REALLY. Saying "no alternate compilers on our hardware" is worse than using the threat of yanking OEM licenses for the then-monopoly desktop OS if they dared to feature another company's browser on the desktop?

How many another companies' browsers are there for iPhone/iPad?

Exactly.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#95

Post by michael_dorfman » Fri, Apr 09, 2010, 5:49 PM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #8

Summary: If you need to "originally" write your code in Swahili, while listening to Milli Vanilli, while reclining in a patch of mud, and then you need fifty oompa loompas to translate the Swahili into C, that is none of Steve Jobs f#ck^ng business.

And Steve's response, I imagine would be: if you want to sell your app in my store, it's my business. If you don't like my rules, develop for a different platform.

Seriously: if Barnes and Noble decides it only wants to sell fiction by authors whose last names begin with "Q", wouldn't we just consider it a bone-headed move, and not the cause for moral outrage?

The iPhone is not the only smartphone on the market, and it's never pretended to be an open platform.

I really can't see why folks are getting their knickers in a twist.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#96

Post by MichaelGG » Fri, Apr 09, 2010, 5:49 PM UTC

CamperBob wrote: post #27

sant0sk1 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't game consoles have expensive, compulsory SDKs?

Yes, and none of them have ever included a rule against cross-compiled code, to the best of my knowledge.

Right, none of them have the complete monopoly to insist on exclusive titles. Notice how big a deal they make it when they do get a studio to do an exclusive.

Apple can get away with this for now, then when WinPhone7 comes out (or somehow they get some real competition), start backing off if they need to. In the meantime, they'll build up more developers that have developed skills in iPhone only tools.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#97

Post by MichaelGG » Fri, Apr 09, 2010, 5:51 PM UTC

MikeTLive wrote: post #77

Is Jobs taking these actions to prevent the commoditization of his platform? I refer the reader back to the Joel Article reposted a few days ago. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1250958 If apps are portable from iphone to droid the phones step closer to being just another commodity portable device.

I wonder, how feasible is it for MS/Google to create a toolkit to allow instant porting of iPhone apps to WinPhone7/Android?

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#98

Post by theli0nheart » Fri, Apr 09, 2010, 5:53 PM UTC

Hasn't anyone else realized that this rule is totally unenforceable? How is Apple going to find out if something was originally written with Unity3D or Clojure? Everything is submitted to them as a binary. You can't inspect a binary and figure out what language the code that generated it was originally written in.

So seriously, what's the problem here? Either there is none or I'm missing something.

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#99

Post by Vivtek » Fri, Apr 09, 2010, 5:59 PM UTC

You know, it just occurred to me that if Apple specifies the tools that may be used to develop applications for the iPhone, then all iPhone developers may legally be their employees for tax purposes....

Re: Steve Jobs Has Just Gone Mad

#100

Post by lallysingh » Fri, Apr 09, 2010, 6:01 PM UTC

potatolicious wrote: post #78

lallysingh wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all! You can buy a few C++ game engines (e.g. Torque) and port them. I have Torque running on Linux, Solaris, Mac, & Windows. Considering it's normal posix underneath, you just have to redo some plumbing.

The iPhone is POSIX, but not to you as the developer. Porting Torque to the iPhone will have to be done by GarageGames, not by you - even if you pull it off it will certainly be violating a laundry list of App Store rules.

.. but you get the source & build tools. Why can't I do it?