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Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

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Re: Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

#61

Post by shmerl »

thesimpsons1022 wrote: post #17
rocky1138 wrote: post #3

If you're a developer looking to fight this, I'd suggest taking a look at Minetest, which started out as a fully libre open-source clone of Minecraft but has really grown into its own project in its own right. The core engine is C++ and mods are programmed using Lua. http://www.minetest.net/#about

and why do you want to fight it?

Using closed stuff for education is a bad idea to begin with. Especially when there are open alternatives. I'm very surprised many in the education sphere don't get it. Windows, Windows everywhere and so on.

Re: Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

#62

Post by vblord »

marcstreeter wrote: post #57
vblord wrote: post #18

My son has done many Minecraft programming courses. He even did a Minecraft programming summer camp. If it wasn't with Minecraft, he wouldn't have done it. I think bringing Minecraft in to the schools to teach development is the right move. I wish all schools would embrace that. It would get the kids excited to learn... unlike... well... everything else besides gym, lunch, and recess. From programming aspect, Minecra…

Care to share any of the minecraft courses you had your son do? Particularly the more successful ones. I'm homeschooling and would like to get my kids on that train since they're already enamored with Minecraft. I'm just not interested in paying for something they'll end up ignoring.

He did it through a local company: http://www.gamestartschool.org

They also just started getting Tynker at school. I think it's optional at school though. https://www.tynker.com/minecraft/

Re: Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

#63

Post by liamparker »

na85 wrote: post #29
Haul4ss wrote: post #5

When Apple makes an iPad app to teach kids a programming language useful only in the Apple ecosystem, they're promoting STEM education. When Microsoft leverages a massively popular game to promote STEM education, they're weaponizing.

Look, I hate Apple as much as the next guy, but I don't get the sudden benevolence for Microsoft that's cropped up in the last few years. Microsoft has a well-known history of user-hostile and downright unethical behaviour, notwithstanding this latest bit of spyware they call Windows 10.

You don't? Look, if microsoft is paying people to use bing or internet explorer, wouldn't you expect they're doing the same for bloggers and commenters?

Re: Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

#64

Post by ocdtrekkie »

rocky1138 wrote: post #60
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't have to make sense. If someone posts about Microsoft someone else has to comment with a twenty year old business strategy from a guy who hasn't worked there in a decade.

I'm sorry, if I wasn't entirely clear. It's not so much about being anti-Microsoft or even anti-Minecraft. I love Minecraft and the new Microsoft is really good as compared to the old one. But, there's a lot of value in having an open source and libre edition of anything which started out or is maintained as a closed-source, proprietary system. Consider: Firefox versus IE, Linux versus OSX or Windows, or LibreOffice…

Perhaps a better approach would be to simply say that if people are then looking for something a bit above and beyond, in terms of programmability, this is something they can look at, rather than talking about "fighting" Microsoft.

Re: Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

#65

Post by gshulegaard »

arcticfox wrote: post #58
gshulegaard wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't remember the Apple context perfectly, but I think a key difference here is that Microsoft is selling it to educational institutions. Alright, I had to look it up: https://techcrunch.com/2016/06/21/apple-launches-coding-camp... But yes, Apple was doing the bootcamps pro-bono. Yeah...I don't really mind the use of "weaponizing" in this context.

If anything, isn't doing something free more potentially sinister, leaving room for an opinion of "weaponizing"? At least the motive behind selling something is obvious ($$$). The motives behind doing something for free could range from benevolent to evil.

True. But for some reason I look more favorably on Apple for doing something new for free than Microsoft taking an existing platform and monetizing it.

To be clear I support both efforts (to various extents)...just in a fictional ranking context, I (personally) put Apple's bootcamp higher up than Microsoft's Minecraft efforts.

Re: Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

#66

Post by fixermark »

shmerl wrote: post #61
thesimpsons1022 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and why do you want to fight it?

Using closed stuff for education is a bad idea to begin with. Especially when there are open alternatives. I'm very surprised many in the education sphere don't get it. Windows, Windows everywhere and so on.

Can you explain why that is? Most people I know who have anything like a computer background from school learned the standard MS Office suite; they then went on to jobs where those skills were useful because their companies also used the MS Office suite. What's the advantage of teaching fundamentals using software the student is less likely to see again?

Re: Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

#67

Post by asimuvPR »

Disclaimer: My day job is in edtech.

Minecraft has shown to be a good tool to teach students about different topics. During this years ISTE convention, I talked with a lot of teachers who used Minecraft as a teaching aide. To the point of using Minecraft graphics on their worksheets. I saw a math worksheet where instead of counting apples the student would count creeper heads. The teacher said the student engagement raised after using the Minecraft graphics. Ultimately it is a great tool. MS will find ways to make money off of that. But there is much worse software out there's being sold everyday to naive school boards. Software that does not help teachers engage students in the way Minecraft does. You will not believe how awful most edtech software is.

Re: Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

#68

Post by wmf »

thr0waway1239 wrote: post #4

Considering Chromebooks barely entered the market only about 4 years back. "In 2015, Chromebooks topped 50 percent of personal computer sales in the U.S. K-12 education market for the first time, with Windows PCs trailing at 22 percent, according to a Futuresource Consulting report." And looking at the chart in the report [1] is even stranger - Chromebooks have basically gone from 16% of yearly device sales to 50% of…

Even though the numbers are pretty misleading, there are a couple interesting things in them. Presumably iOS had almost no market share in K-12 in 2009 (pre-iPad), yet it took 39% share by 2013. Then Chromebooks took that share and more. Maybe once a market gets disrupted there is an opening for another player to re-disrupt it since customers haven't had time to grow too attached.

Re: Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

#69

Post by shmerl »

fixermark wrote: post #66
shmerl wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using closed stuff for education is a bad idea to begin with. Especially when there are open alternatives. I'm very surprised many in the education sphere don't get it. Windows, Windows everywhere and so on.

Can you explain why that is? Most people I know who have anything like a computer background from school learned the standard MS Office suite; they then went on to jobs where those skills were useful because their companies also used the MS Office suite. What's the advantage of teaching fundamentals using software the student is less likely to see again?

It's a catch 22 lock-in perpetuated by MS. It should be broken and education system is as good place as any to do it. MS hooked everyone on it, and arguments like "what's the advantage of not being hooked on it, since everyone is" aren't helping.

Luckily some actually get it and use Linux in schools. But in my experience it's not common (in higher education chances are better).

Re: Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

#70

Post by gravypod »

inputcoffee wrote: post #2

Has anyone here programmed minecraft? Can you report to the rest of us how the following compare as learning experiences: 1. Minecraft 2. Swift Playground 3. Commodore 64 or other old basic 4. Game Salad, or Game Maker, 5. Just learning Javascript in the browser I know #2 is my favorite experience, but I think #5 is the most useful now. Just wondering if anyone has played around with minecraft to compare. If I had to…

Computer craft, a mod for minecraft, would be a far better experience if extended correctly then most of the minecraft programming setups. I've done a few projects in there and could only see how this would help people. I've been able to do really cool systems in there in my playthoughs.
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