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Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

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Re: Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

#51

Post by DanBC »

ramblenode wrote: post #41

Where is the research and what are the arguments that support Minecraft's educational utility? I haven't devoted a great deal of time to seeking them out, but so far I haven't found very convincing literature. Don't get me wrong, it seems like a great creative outlet, but why should a school prefer this over alternatives like music, art, or writing? I've seen a number of references to Minecraft's ability to simulate…

> the video game aspect of it necessitates a lot of "grinding"

No, there's a creative mode where there's no grinding needed. The player has everything available right away.

> but how is this better than another logic board simulator or cheap electronics?

Children use it.

Re: Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

#52

Post by pjmlp »

gdulli wrote: post #26
Haul4ss wrote: post #5

When Apple makes an iPad app to teach kids a programming language useful only in the Apple ecosystem, they're promoting STEM education. When Microsoft leverages a massively popular game to promote STEM education, they're weaponizing.

HN definitely has this bias and it's not a place to expect reasonable discussion of Microsoft, but if you look at the actual headline of the article instead of the submitted one the use of "weaponize" has more context and makes sense: "Microsoft Weaponizes Minecraft in the War over Classrooms"

I learned to developed a hard skin when discussing such matters on online forums, but back in Portugal in the mid-90's you would hardly find anyone that didn't enjoy using Borland and Microsoft tools as a developer.

The only real alternative to it was doing games and demoscene programming for the Amiga.

Re: Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

#53

Post by vvanders »

FT_intern wrote: post #44
vvanders wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Microsoft has always offered educational versions of Visual Studio at discounted/zero cost. I clearly remember getting a student copy of Visual Basic(VS6.0!) for ~$50. I built all sorts of stupid things with that and while it definitely biased me in favor of Microsoft tools you know what else it did? Helped me into a rich and diverse career in a wide array of technologies and stacks. Anything that helps brid…

$50 is expensive for personal software. Many IDEs are free for non commercial use

Sure, but we're also talking about back in '98 where the software landscape was pretty different. It was about the same as a AAA PC game title which was a fair price to my younger self.

Heck back then I got a physical 8" x 6" box, none of this puny CD/DVD sleeve stuff. We had to drive to a store in downtown San Diego that explicitly sold compilers/productivity software/etc. Hard to believe that happening this day and age.

Re: Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

#54

Post by inputcoffee »

icebraining wrote: post #13
inputcoffee wrote: post #2

Has anyone here programmed minecraft? Can you report to the rest of us how the following compare as learning experiences: 1. Minecraft 2. Swift Playground 3. Commodore 64 or other old basic 4. Game Salad, or Game Maker, 5. Just learning Javascript in the browser I know #2 is my favorite experience, but I think #5 is the most useful now. Just wondering if anyone has played around with minecraft to compare. If I had to…

I started with #5 when I first learned programming, back in 2000. Personally, I think the usefulness part is overrated - once you learn a language, it's pretty easy to learn another, at least for the typical imperative/OO mix - the concepts usually map pretty well. I'd suggest trying multiple and see what they find more rewarding.

Interesting you say that.

The reason I thought #5 was the most useful is exactly the opposite: I thought that programming in the browser feels different. There are all these other moving parts, remote libraries, and you have to check things remotely. You're constantly aware that you're plugged into the globe's APIs as opposed to the feeling of being in this little box.

Re: Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

#55

Post by pjmlp »

na85 wrote: post #29
Haul4ss wrote: post #5

When Apple makes an iPad app to teach kids a programming language useful only in the Apple ecosystem, they're promoting STEM education. When Microsoft leverages a massively popular game to promote STEM education, they're weaponizing.

Look, I hate Apple as much as the next guy, but I don't get the sudden benevolence for Microsoft that's cropped up in the last few years. Microsoft has a well-known history of user-hostile and downright unethical behaviour, notwithstanding this latest bit of spyware they call Windows 10.

Because they are no different than any other company of similar size.

Re: Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

#56

Post by ocdtrekkie »

HelloMcFly wrote: post #35
rocky1138 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Embrace, extend, extinguish: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace%2C_extend_and_extingui...

Sorry, maybe I'm dense: what exactly are you afraid of being extinguished here?

It doesn't have to make sense. If someone posts about Microsoft someone else has to comment with a twenty year old business strategy from a guy who hasn't worked there in a decade.

Re: Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

#57

Post by marcstreeter »

vblord wrote: post #18

My son has done many Minecraft programming courses. He even did a Minecraft programming summer camp. If it wasn't with Minecraft, he wouldn't have done it. I think bringing Minecraft in to the schools to teach development is the right move. I wish all schools would embrace that. It would get the kids excited to learn... unlike... well... everything else besides gym, lunch, and recess. From programming aspect, Minecra…

Care to share any of the minecraft courses you had your son do? Particularly the more successful ones. I'm homeschooling and would like to get my kids on that train since they're already enamored with Minecraft. I'm just not interested in paying for something they'll end up ignoring.

Re: Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

#58

Post by arcticfox »

gshulegaard wrote: post #42
Haul4ss wrote: post #5

When Apple makes an iPad app to teach kids a programming language useful only in the Apple ecosystem, they're promoting STEM education. When Microsoft leverages a massively popular game to promote STEM education, they're weaponizing.

I don't remember the Apple context perfectly, but I think a key difference here is that Microsoft is selling it to educational institutions. Alright, I had to look it up: https://techcrunch.com/2016/06/21/apple-launches-coding-camp... But yes, Apple was doing the bootcamps pro-bono. Yeah...I don't really mind the use of "weaponizing" in this context.

If anything, isn't doing something free more potentially sinister, leaving room for an opinion of "weaponizing"?

At least the motive behind selling something is obvious ($$$). The motives behind doing something for free could range from benevolent to evil.

Re: Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

#59

Post by dump121 »

rocky1138 wrote: post #30
thesimpsons1022 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and why do you want to fight it?

Embrace, extend, extinguish: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace%2C_extend_and_extingui...

They way this term is thrown around, curious if the posters ever understood the strategy or even read the linked wiki page.

Re: Microsoft is using Minecraft to vie for kids’ brain space and schools’ dollars

#60

Post by rocky1138 »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #56
HelloMcFly wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, maybe I'm dense: what exactly are you afraid of being extinguished here?

It doesn't have to make sense. If someone posts about Microsoft someone else has to comment with a twenty year old business strategy from a guy who hasn't worked there in a decade.

I'm sorry, if I wasn't entirely clear. It's not so much about being anti-Microsoft or even anti-Minecraft. I love Minecraft and the new Microsoft is really good as compared to the old one.

But, there's a lot of value in having an open source and libre edition of anything which started out or is maintained as a closed-source, proprietary system.

Consider: Firefox versus IE, Linux versus OSX or Windows, or LibreOffice versus Microsoft Office.

With Minecraft, there is no opportunity for developers to really get on-board to build stuff with them. The source is closed and Mojang is AWOL when it comes to the developer API.

Minetest, on the other hand, is LGPL and is freely available.

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