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Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

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Re: Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

#41
post #22

Problems like this can happen in any company and this includes Apple as well. Since Apple is one of the biggest Tech companies people are going to make a big deal about it. But it is a big failure if managers/management fail to take actions. The immediate manager should be fired in this case since he or she failed to take any action or involve HR or upper management

Why does it seem like every time someone gets offended about something there are calls for people to get fired? There are other ways to address workplace conflicts than to put heads on sticks. As reported in this article, none of these incidents are grounds for termination- not even close.

I like how Atlassian handled an incident that was different, but also included calls to fire the engineer:

http://blogs.atlassian.com/2014/06/failing-values-team-indus...

> I know the engineer responsible well. I hired him. I know the slide does not reflect his values any more than it reflects Atlassian’s, and he is as deeply sorry as we are. It was an error in judgment, but one the company shares responsibility for making.

> As Atlassian, we don’t stand behind the slide – but we stand as a team. When we do good, and when we do bad. Today, we failed as a team. We will help him learn from this, as we all must. Our engineer, our event, our issue, our learning, our growing – as a team.

Re: Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

#42

Why are most of these articles about harassment in the office associated with American companies? Are women from other countries afraid to speak about this? Or are American women just overreacting? In this specific case I understand that insinuating a rape scenario — which by the way is not against women but "everybody" — in a work environment is bad, but without knowing what other toxic comments or behavior happened…

In a world where tech companies are competing desperately to secure as much as possible of a limited pool of female talent, quitting (and encouraging other women to do the same) is a pretty direct and powerful way to incentivize the company to do better in the future.

Apple gets a lot of good PR for having a relatively high percentage of female employees; stories like this damage that, and in this case, it sounds like the black mark is at least in part deserved.

As for the difference between American and other countries, some possible conclusions that don't rely on the meme that women are catty or that everyone is too sensitive (even if they sometimes are):

- There are legitimate cultural differences between the U.S. and other countries. Look at parental leave policy in Europe vs. the United States.

- You may be exposed to more U.S. media than non-U.S media.

- Protections for women and minorities in general in the U.S. are weaker.

- Many of the biggest tech companies are U.S. companies. Silicon Valley is in Silicon Valley. Non-U.S. companies often get less media exposure than U.S. tech companies.

Re: Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

#43
Rape jokes certainly are not appropriate and should not be so common, but that language is toxic? Side note: women are always wanting to be more "equal" with men. Maybe they were talking about it so much as a twisted way to include her.

Re: Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

#44
Reading stuff like this always feels weird to me. I'm the founder of a 30+ year company and, to my knowledge, this has never happened at my company. It's possible it happened and no one told me, but given my position, I would think it would eventually come around to me (I'm the COO now).

I have to wonder if behavior like this follows from bad leadership. I'm not saying Tim Cook, given the case of Apple, but middle managers. I just cannot believe that a person above the woman in TFA didn't know about this, and just let it ride, because it was just "boys being boys" or some BS like that.

I can tell you if I ever saw or heard of anyone doing this in my company, I would crack down very quick and hard. But more than that, I think the people we have lead by example and I just can't believe anyone would ever do something like TFA outlines.

Re: Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

#45
post #13

Telling someone to smile feels closer to trying to cheer them up than any harassment.

Don't ever do this to a woman. It's not going to cheer them up. They've been putting up with that crap their whole lives, and all you accomplish by telling them that is to add to the load of crap.

Don't do it to a guy either. I've put up with this crap and frankly you are just another brick in the wall.

People often have resting faces that look unhappy.

Re: Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

#46
post #44

Reading stuff like this always feels weird to me. I'm the founder of a 30+ year company and, to my knowledge, this has never happened at my company. It's possible it happened and no one told me, but given my position, I would think it would eventually come around to me (I'm the COO now). I have to wonder if behavior like this follows from bad leadership. I'm not saying Tim Cook, given the case of Apple, but middle ma…

I can tell you if I ever saw or heard of anyone doing this in my company, I would crack down very quick and hard.

There's a reason that information doesn't make it all the way up the "chain of command".

Re: Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

#47
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are most of these articles about harassment in the office associated with American companies? Are women from other countries afraid to speak about this? Or are American women just overreacting? There's some other possibilities too, like it's worse in America than in other countries.

As someone who's spent a fair bit of time in Germany and Switzerland, lol no.

I can confirm that several nations in Asia also don't treat women employees better than they're treated in USA. b^)

Re: Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

#48
The time that I worked at Apple was brutally hard work. If we're talking about work environment, I think many people reading that article have no concept of how difficult a job it is, how high are the expectations, and how many hours the average engineer is putting in there.

This is a very difficult job which can be extremely stressful for a long duration of time. As a society we tend to laud grueling hard work rather than recognize that it's probably the worst aspect of the work environment by far.

As far as TFA goes... it appears to be reporting on "leaked" emails telling a one-sided narrative with no attempt to validate the claims. Not to diminish the claims being made, but I think this is technically called "storytelling".

Taking it a face value though, it seems tame in comparison to other 'scandals'. I simply do not expect that people will constantly remain professional. They will need to blow off steam, and sometimes the way they do that will not be fully inclusive, or necessarily politically correct. Yes, sometimes men actually complain about their wives at work -- this is not shocking to me. I don't like that employee complaints seem to be poorly handled; all employees should be valued and listened to at least.

None of what I read in TFA I really understand to be a hostile work environment, as the term is defined. Is "toxic" supposed to be a new term to describe feeling uncomfortable or not getting the promotion you wanted? Apple's work environment is certainly extreme, but I think for reasons very much apart from gender.

Re: Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

#49
post #44

Reading stuff like this always feels weird to me. I'm the founder of a 30+ year company and, to my knowledge, this has never happened at my company. It's possible it happened and no one told me, but given my position, I would think it would eventually come around to me (I'm the COO now). I have to wonder if behavior like this follows from bad leadership. I'm not saying Tim Cook, given the case of Apple, but middle ma…

I appreciate your comment. Truly, it won't reach you, it will stay stuck in middle management.

To keep something like this from happening you need to implement training. Training for both men and women on what is acceptable "here", because believe it or not, people are not learning from their home or college environments about what you think is acceptable.

Then make yourself, or a senior HR person, available to speak with.

Re: Leaked Apple emails reveal employees' complaints about toxic work environment

#50

Why are most of these articles about harassment in the office associated with American companies? Are women from other countries afraid to speak about this? Or are American women just overreacting? In this specific case I understand that insinuating a rape scenario — which by the way is not against women but "everybody" — in a work environment is bad, but without knowing what other toxic comments or behavior happened…

>Why are most of these articles about harassment in the office associated with American companies? Are women from other countries afraid to speak about this? Or are American women just overreacting?

It's a change in culture and expectations. It's also class specific. Men and women in the working class have different expectations and, in my experience, women in the working class can be just as brutal as men, when it comes to harassment.

To further the cultural aspect, it's like corporal punishment in the US as a way to steer child behavior. In some places of the world it's still okay and people see it as normal but most kids in the US would see corporal punishment as something that only happens to kids in bad households and many would call the cops on their parents or strangers --this of course was not the case 50-70 years ago.

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