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Pardon Snowden

pardonsnowden.org

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Re: Pardon Snowden

#351

Post by kristopolous »

hota_mazi wrote: post #323
peterkelly wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the so-called "chilling effect" that's one of the most worrying implications of mass surveillance on a society... people feel afraid to speak out due to a concern they may be added to a list of some sort, and face negative real-life repercussions due to expressing their free speech. There were a couple of times where I actually called the public contact numbers for NSA & GCHQ regarding particular stories abou…

This chilling effect has a counterpart which would be directly amplified by pardoning Snowden. In short, if Snowden gets pardoned, it will encourage further people to leak confidential documents and violate the Espionage act since they will be emboldened by the thought they might get pardoned down the road.

Ah the Espionage Act. It's written by the organization that will penalize you if you speak out against them - but don't worry, they're dedicated to protect your speech even if you speak out against them.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#352

Post by jcoffland »

captainmuon wrote: post #52

Maybe a naive question, but what would the risk be for me to sign this? I wonder if I (a US citizen) might get trouble the next time at the border? Or get a higher score in some database, that combined with other things might get me into trouble? Increased scrutiny from the IRS (which should have nothing to do with this, but "they" might say hell why not?)? Inability to get security clearances in future? Being target…

A lot of Germans had this attitude back in the late 30s early 40s.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#353

Post by mtgx »

hota_mazi wrote: post #323
peterkelly wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the so-called "chilling effect" that's one of the most worrying implications of mass surveillance on a society... people feel afraid to speak out due to a concern they may be added to a list of some sort, and face negative real-life repercussions due to expressing their free speech. There were a couple of times where I actually called the public contact numbers for NSA & GCHQ regarding particular stories abou…

This chilling effect has a counterpart which would be directly amplified by pardoning Snowden. In short, if Snowden gets pardoned, it will encourage further people to leak confidential documents and violate the Espionage act since they will be emboldened by the thought they might get pardoned down the road.

The solution to that is not to not sign the petition, but to lobby for proper whistleblower protection, so the whistleblowers go through the proper channels to expose the crimes without retaliation.

If the answer to that is "well, they'll never agree to that", then leaking will happen regardless of whether Snowden is pardoned or not.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#355

Post by Semiapies »

dsacco wrote: post #260
lettergram wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By logging into "hacker news" regularly, mentioning the NSA (and probably other key terms: data collection, US citizen) I'm sure you are already on a list.

> By logging into "hacker news" regularly, mentioning the NSA (and probably other key terms: data collection, US citizen) I'm sure you are already on a list. If the NSA really does maintain these macabre "lists", it's kind of hard to believe they'd be so unsophisticated as to put you on one for visiting a website called "Hacker News" that has nothing to do with the definition of "hacking" that they care about.

It may be hard to believe, but it's typical of surveillance programs. They aren't run by cunning Men in Black, they're just another government program with bureaucratic directives and clueless people in charge.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#356

Post by mintplant »

j2kun wrote: post #273
jokoon wrote: post #203

I'm still genuinely curious about what the intelligence community thinks of him, if it's bad, what are the arguments against him. I've heard Mike Baker on the Joe Rogan experience say that he did not trust Snowden one bit. In the intelligence world, it's common to be very cautions about leaks since foreign actors like Russia can really benefit politically from such scandal. It can be difficult to really know all the…

Though I won't name any names, I have heard a big reason is that he was indiscriminate about what he leaked.

Are you sure you're not thinking of Assange or Manning? Snowden and his team have been much more careful and restrained with what they release than, say, WikiLeaks.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#358

Post by rbanffy »

swalsh wrote: post #163
cesis wrote: post #51

Also don't forget about Manning who actually went to prison and is not getting any publicity now.

I have mixed feelings about Manning. What did she release that made this country "better". Snowdon's leaks were controlled, and focused. The content has had a meaningful impact.

> What did she release that made this country "better".

The truth. You deserve to know what crimes are committed in your name.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#359

Post by cs02rm0 »

swalsh wrote: post #163
cesis wrote: post #51

Also don't forget about Manning who actually went to prison and is not getting any publicity now.

I have mixed feelings about Manning. What did she release that made this country "better". Snowdon's leaks were controlled, and focused. The content has had a meaningful impact.

The journalists' leaks were (arguably, I think I'd agree though) controlled and focussed. Snowden gave them the entire lot and handed judgement over to them.

Didn't he?

Re: Pardon Snowden

#360

Post by eridius »

hota_mazi wrote: post #323
peterkelly wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the so-called "chilling effect" that's one of the most worrying implications of mass surveillance on a society... people feel afraid to speak out due to a concern they may be added to a list of some sort, and face negative real-life repercussions due to expressing their free speech. There were a couple of times where I actually called the public contact numbers for NSA & GCHQ regarding particular stories abou…

This chilling effect has a counterpart which would be directly amplified by pardoning Snowden. In short, if Snowden gets pardoned, it will encourage further people to leak confidential documents and violate the Espionage act since they will be emboldened by the thought they might get pardoned down the road.

You could make the same argument about every single pardon, and yet nobody really worries about this outcome.
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