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Vim 8.0 released

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Re: Vim 8.0 released

#291

Post by hackuser »

reflexive wrote: post #238
hackuser wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the general point, and I believe it's well-established, that aid can have second-order and higher order effects that are counter-productive. On the other hand, in this case it's merely FUD and an argument for inaction; we would need specific information about Moolenaar's charity. I'm not going to stand still and do nothing just in case. Second-order effects also can make donations to the Free Software Co…

> I'm not going to stand still and do nothing The advice "Don't just do something, stand there!" comes to mind. Bram has been going to Kibaale since 1994, and he's now presumably busy feeding and clothing a new generation of orphaned children, orphaned by the original orphans. Isn't this precisely the creation of a trans-generational cycle of dependency by Western patrons? Wouldn't those people rather be in a positio…

> he's now presumably busy feeding and clothing a new generation of orphaned children, orphaned by the original orphans

That comment makes up a fact and then criticizes it.

I have no idea what the outcomes are for the people Bram helped and I doubt you do, though I'm confident they have a little more food and whatever else he provides. There are still problems in Uganda and there are still problems everywhere in the world, including in rich nations, in your family and mine, in your life and mine; there are bugs in Linux' code. The fact that problems remain doesn't in any way imply that the efforts to improve are counter-productive. That doesn't make sense.

Re: Vim 8.0 released

#292

Post by kzrdude »

hsitz wrote: post #197
kzrdude wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do most vim plugins work without changes in neovim? I'm mostly using vim-airline and tagbar to be honest, wouldn't be sad if the other ones stopped working.

VimScript is not deprecated in NeoVim, and maintaining backward compatibility is major focus. So must Vim plugins will work in Neovim. vim-airline is listed among the plugins that has some special neovim-specific features added: https://github.com/neovim/neovim/wiki/Related-projects

Cool, thanks.

Re: Vim 8.0 released

#293

Post by dominotw »

stephenboyd wrote: post #127
dominotw wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'transform Vim into an embeddable text editor engine' I think that was the main objective of the project. Would be nice to real vim in IntelliJ idea.

As a naive IntelliJ user, I found myself editing files with Vim in IntelliJ's terminal console.

whoa! had no idea this was thing .

Re: Vim 8.0 released

#294

Post by romgrk »

mden wrote: post #141
dleslie wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soon NeoVim will no longer update regularly because Vim has caught up and/or surpassed it with every feature that matters... By that time Emacs will have replaced temacs with Guile and someone clever will have added VimScript as a hosted language.

It's close, but I think NeoVim's RPC model could be huge. Writing a new frontend for vim no longer seems that crazy of a goal which makes it easier for people to experiment with new editor ideas while relying on the very solid core of vim (well at least I find that exciting, idk if the general vimmer cares).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI5azVeDUDo

Re: Vim 8.0 released

#295

Post by romgrk »

spdy wrote: post #23
nerdponx wrote: post #3

Is there feature/API parity between Vim 8 and NeoVim? I would hate to see the community fragment and disintegrate.

The main devs of NeoVim offered to work out an api for both versions but it never happend. Seems like we are now in a feature war between both lets see who comes out winning. This whole thing could have happend so much smoother for the community but stubbornness sometimes lead to interesting innovations :).

This is what is now possible with Neovim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI5azVeDUDo

Re: Vim 8.0 released

#297

Post by markdog12 »

danielrm26 wrote: post #93

I submit my Vim Primer for your consideration. https://danielmiessler.com/study/vim/ Going to download and see what Prezto stuff breaks when I upgrade.

Many thanks for this. I went through the whole tutorial and it was great.

Re: Vim 8.0 released

#298

Post by mempko »

fatbird wrote: post #273
mempko wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but Thiago's response is clearly patronising. Giving Bram advice on how to "properly" implement channels and job control. Suggesting taking the old infamous old patch. I got pissed off for Bram reading it. Also Bram had much more detailed and valid criticism about neovim's implementation above the response you linked. Did you intentionally link that one to make Bram look bad or did you simply not read the…

Thiago's response comes from several years of experience actually doing and having done what Bram what proposing: first creating the async path for vim, fighting for its acceptance, then forking vim, implementing it, and shepherding it as the key feature of neovim. So far, I've heard no major complaints about neovim's async; it's actually been the killer feature so far. Bram might be the more experienced programmer o…

I wasn't talking about Thiago's credentials. I was talking about the tone in his reply which was clearly abrasive.

Brams criticism is valid about Thiago solution. Forcing msgpack is less than ideal. It's clear Thiago is learning as he goes along. Taking his work without reflection would be silly.

Also it is also clear neovim wants plugin writers. So they want vim to be compatible with what they made so they can grab users.

Why should vim care about being compatible with neovim?

Re: Vim 8.0 released

#299

Post by fatbird »

mempko wrote: post #298
fatbird wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thiago's response comes from several years of experience actually doing and having done what Bram what proposing: first creating the async path for vim, fighting for its acceptance, then forking vim, implementing it, and shepherding it as the key feature of neovim. So far, I've heard no major complaints about neovim's async; it's actually been the killer feature so far. Bram might be the more experienced programmer o…

I wasn't talking about Thiago's credentials. I was talking about the tone in his reply which was clearly abrasive. Brams criticism is valid about Thiago solution. Forcing msgpack is less than ideal. It's clear Thiago is learning as he goes along. Taking his work without reflection would be silly. Also it is also clear neovim wants plugin writers. So they want vim to be compatible with what they made so they can grab…

I don't agree with your reading of Thiago's tone--you found it patronising, I found it trying hard to be polite to Bram, who's being the same dismissive senior dev he was when he rejected Thiago's first and second attempts at patches to do what was done very well in neovim.

As for why vim should care? Because at this point I'd put money on neovim as the long term winner, and if I were Bram, I'd worry about vim joining vi on the sidelines as 'still developed, still in use, but not the vi everyone uses when they log into a linux box'. I'd look at my codebase and neovim's, at my toolchain and neovim's, at my community and neovim's, at my velocity and neovim's, and I'd imagine neovim eclipsing vim over time.

Maybe that's fine. But Bram is hardly some god-king who's position as foremost developer in the vi universe is a lifetime appointment--especially after he took that position from Bill Joy.

Re: Vim 8.0 released

#300

Post by mempko »

fatbird wrote: post #299
mempko wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't talking about Thiago's credentials. I was talking about the tone in his reply which was clearly abrasive. Brams criticism is valid about Thiago solution. Forcing msgpack is less than ideal. It's clear Thiago is learning as he goes along. Taking his work without reflection would be silly. Also it is also clear neovim wants plugin writers. So they want vim to be compatible with what they made so they can grab…

I don't agree with your reading of Thiago's tone--you found it patronising, I found it trying hard to be polite to Bram, who's being the same dismissive senior dev he was when he rejected Thiago's first and second attempts at patches to do what was done very well in neovim. As for why vim should care? Because at this point I'd put money on neovim as the long term winner, and if I were Bram, I'd worry about vim joinin…

Why are you on the side of someone who has a hard time being polite. I read the original threads about Thiagos original patch and he was in the wrong. He ignored issues that were outlined and it was clear the patch was not ready. He was not polite.

Once again Bram brings up a valid issue with neovims design about using msgpack for RPC. It just adds another layer of difficulty.

So explain to me why vim should include such an obviously flawed design?

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