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Vim 8.0 released

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Re: Vim 8.0 released

#251

Post by __s »

reflexive wrote: post #238
hackuser wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the general point, and I believe it's well-established, that aid can have second-order and higher order effects that are counter-productive. On the other hand, in this case it's merely FUD and an argument for inaction; we would need specific information about Moolenaar's charity. I'm not going to stand still and do nothing just in case. Second-order effects also can make donations to the Free Software Co…

> I'm not going to stand still and do nothing The advice "Don't just do something, stand there!" comes to mind. Bram has been going to Kibaale since 1994, and he's now presumably busy feeding and clothing a new generation of orphaned children, orphaned by the original orphans. Isn't this precisely the creation of a trans-generational cycle of dependency by Western patrons? Wouldn't those people rather be in a positio…

How do you know they're the children of children he's helped? Latest news posting underlines emphasis on education & getting people employed

http://iccf-holland.org/news.html

Re: Vim 8.0 released

#252

Post by fatbird »

vegabook wrote: post #175
jjawssd wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he's a great guy but at some point it's time to move on

but move on from what exactly? Vim 8? Looks good to me.... Maybe you want to move on just for the sake of moving on? To a new generation? Can you explain why? Seems to me that the person who knows the code base 200%, who wrote/vetted the entire codebase , is better placed to add features, than newbie refactorers who didn't?

Those newbie refactorers took a 300k line codebase, removed 130k lines of cruft, got it working on a modern toolchain, created an actual OSS dev community without a bus factor of 1, and added two major new features (async and embedded terminal) of which vim has only gotten around to adding 1, while improving performance and laying the groundwork for another major new feature (embeddable) that vim will take years to catch up to.

And all of that while maintaining such good backwards compatibility that almost all vim plugins work unmodified. Plugin authors only need to lift a finger to take advantage of new capabilities like async.

I didn't switch just for the sake of moving on. I switched because by any appreciable aspect, neovim and the developers behind it are simply better than vim.

Re: Vim 8.0 released

#254

Post by mempko »

shazow wrote: post #112
spdy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main devs of NeoVim offered to work out an api for both versions but it never happend. Seems like we are now in a feature war between both lets see who comes out winning. This whole thing could have happend so much smoother for the community but stubbornness sometimes lead to interesting innovations :).

If anyone is curious, here is the thread in question where the vim async API was proposed and the neovim devs proposed collaboration and were shut down without actually looking at the details: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/vim_dev/_SbMTGshzVc/... Some choice posts: - Bram (vim author's) response to whether he looked at existing implementation in neovim: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/vim_dev/_SbMTGshzVc/wX…

I'm sorry, but Thiago's response is clearly patronising. Giving Bram advice on how to "properly" implement channels and job control. Suggesting taking the old infamous old patch.

I got pissed off for Bram reading it.

Also Bram had much more detailed and valid criticism about neovim's implementation above the response you linked. Did you intentionally link that one to make Bram look bad or did you simply not read the whole thread? I'm betting on the former.

Re: Vim 8.0 released

#255

Post by pacuna »

I've tried nvim, sublime's vintage mode, atom's vim mode, visual code's vim mode, jet brains' vim mode, spacemacs and always end up going back to vim. I know it's far from being perfect. All of those other alternatives have features I wish vim had but at the end there's just no comparison against the flow you can get with something like tmux/vim/plugins

Re: Vim 8.0 released

#256

Post by allendoerfer »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #137
thedz wrote: post #6

Notable improvements: - Async /Io - Async Jobs - "Packages", which allow easier built-in bundling of plugins I'm pretty excited for this release! I've been using Neovim for several months now, but really great to see mainline Vim get these (IMO long overdue) enhancements.

I'd love to see vim add an embedded terminal emulator in a window based on the async support. That feature alone motivated me to try neovim.

That is tmux's job. Do one thing well.

Re: Vim 8.0 released

#257

Post by executesorder66 »

flukus wrote: post #244
shazow wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did Bram Moolenaar tell you that? Otherwise, none of us know what motivated him. I don't think this is a subjective matter? The sequence of events was: 1. async feature was proposed in 2014 and earlier, Bram was opposed to the idea in general 2. neovim was created to integrate async and other improvements 3. lots of plugins started supporting neovim's async 4. vim comes out with its own async feature You're welcome…

> 1. async feature was proposed in 2014 and earlier, Bram was opposed to the idea in general Not accepting a patch without question doesn't mean he was opposed to the idea.

I'm linking this[0] post, not to talk about why/if neovim is better than vim, but rather because it gives a nice overview of why that patch was rejected, and why neovim was started.

[0]http://geoff.greer.fm/2015/01/15/why-neovim-is-better-than-v...

Re: Vim 8.0 released

#258

Post by cobby »

flukus wrote: post #244
shazow wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did Bram Moolenaar tell you that? Otherwise, none of us know what motivated him. I don't think this is a subjective matter? The sequence of events was: 1. async feature was proposed in 2014 and earlier, Bram was opposed to the idea in general 2. neovim was created to integrate async and other improvements 3. lots of plugins started supporting neovim's async 4. vim comes out with its own async feature You're welcome…

> 1. async feature was proposed in 2014 and earlier, Bram was opposed to the idea in general Not accepting a patch without question doesn't mean he was opposed to the idea.

He didn't accept several patches, did he?

Re: Vim 8.0 released

#259

Post by hoodoof »

I made the terrible error of trying to use vim as an IDE when I was learning to program. Honestly I think it set my progress back 75%.

Don't get me wrong, I use vim all the time cause it's there on any machine I log in to, but I found I was MUCH more productive when I paid for a good IDE for development.

And YES I tried using all the plugins to make vim into an IDE. That was half the problem.

Re: Vim 8.0 released

#260

Post by Tehnix »

Kudos for finally getting async support! :)

That said, I feel like this is a perfect example showing off that the best way (or a at least a very good one) out of stagnation of a piece of software is competition. VIM was dead in the water for a very long time (aync support looking at you), which is but one of the reasons NeoVIM was created, in turn sparking VIM to actually get off its laurels.

I can't help but draw parallels to the Haskell community with stack and cabal-install, to the people that might be familiar with that situation.

Anyhow, I guess I just wanted to also thank NeoVIM for pushing some life into VIM again, besides having it more or less in maintenance mode.

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