Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief • Hacker News Board

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#161

Post by imgabe » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 8:41 PM UTC

gxs wrote: post #97

I'm really torn on this for the same reason I'm torn on what to do with the people in jail for marijuana offenses: On the one hand, yes what's happening is wrong. On the other hand, you CHOSE to go into debt knowing that you would have to repay it after you graduated. Just like people who CHOSE to deal marijuana KNEW it is illegal. Disagreeing with the law doesn't entitle you to break it. Similarly, disagreeing with…

You would seriously keep people in jail for marijuana charges after marijuana was legalized?

If a mistake is made, remedy the mistake. The government made a mistake in providing a glut of cheap money and prohibiting the borrowers from discharging the debt in bankruptcy. They need to fix their mistake by undoing that.

What you're proposing is like abolishing slavery, except for everyone who is currently a slave. "Sorry guys, there will be no NEW slaves, but you were slaves when it was legal, so, tough"

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#162

Post by v64 » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 8:43 PM UTC

crush_xc wrote: post #117

whyenot wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is not worth $100k and there are many other ways to have that experience that do not cost that much You can get an excellent education at a state school for less than $6k per year. The person who gets a degree in music theory, philosophy, or art history may not get a job that ties in to their major, but these people all leave college with skills in critical thinking, writing, the ability to meet deadlines, skill…

what state does that exist in? No state school here in NJ is under 10k a year, and none of them are ranked decently except for maybe Rutgers, Stevens, and NJIT's architecture program.

The University of Texas has in state tuition for below 6k a year, and in some cases out of state tuition can come in at below 10k as well. [1] This is just tuition and administrative fees and doesn't include housing and textbooks.

[1] https://admissions.utexas.edu/tuition/cost-of-attendance

Edit: Sorry I misread. These stats are by semester, not year.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#163

Post by Broken_Hippo » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 8:44 PM UTC

tswartz wrote: post #4

It's such a weight off of the shoulders to have paid my wife and my student loans off a few months ago. Instead of the 20 or 30yr plan we put every extra dollar towards it and paid it off in 3.5 years. It feels fantastic! It's bizarre that student debt has become the norm and students who have potentially low-earning majors such as History are still given similar amounts of money from banks as a CS major.

Comparatively, teaching is a low-earning major on average, as are many that wind up in a government or public service job. Teaching, btw, is one of the options with a history degree. We need public defenders (and the funds to properly pay them), but that isn't generally a get-rich job either. Especially in a small county or cheap area. And we need these sorts of jobs.

It seems mighty unfair to limit the money simply because a degree doesn't earn so much. I think such a system would lead to sub-par schools for the 'lesser' degrees and better ones for those with better earning potential.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#164

Post by pwthornton » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 8:44 PM UTC

icehawk219 wrote: post #10

Part of the problem is that the last few generations have been told the same thing: blue collar jobs aren't "good" jobs. You need to go to college so you can get a "good" job sitting at a desk because those other jobs are below you. If you take one of those blue collar jobs then you've failed and aren't "achieving your potential". The grand irony in all of this is that the people who did go on to become plumbers, ele…

Blue collar employment has been falling in this country, replaced by either knowledge work -- which usually requires further education -- or service industry jobs. If there were truly huge demand for many of these professions, pay would be skyrocketing, encouraging more and more people to go into these professions.

I agree that there are and will continue to be good skilled trade jobs and many people would be better served by pursuing these options, but there is tremendous value for the average American in a college degree. The problem is that a lot of Americans are unable to graduate college, and waste their time and money pursuing a degree instead of doing something more inline with their talents or their drive.

As it stands, automation will most likely continue to primarily affect blue collar workers before it hits knowledge workers. Long-haul truck driving will probably fall relatively soon and factories will continue to have more and more automation.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#165

Post by ams6110 » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 8:46 PM UTC

leereeves wrote: post #137

tw04 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>...fer instance: "Here's what 10$ an hour looks like! Had to put in my 2 weeks." And pretty much every reply is "I make way more than that, what are you thinking??" I'd imagine the guy either doesn't know how to show up consistently and on-time, or has such a severe lack of social skills that he can't properly interview for a job. If you can weld like that and can't find a job making more than $10/hr you are doing…

> "I make way more than that, what are you thinking??" Way more than that being $30/hour = $60K per year.

Most of my neighbors are "blue collar" entrepreneurs who started in trade jobs and eventually founded their own construction, electrical, or plumbing contracting companies. Most of them make way more money than software developers. Well into the six-figure scale.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#166

Post by lawnchair_larry » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 8:47 PM UTC

no_wave wrote: post #31

As a college graduate, I'd be ok with student loan relief as long as it's funded by a tax on college graduates (and it has to be preceded by something preventing this occurring in the future, like making student loan debt dischargeable under certain circumstances) Seems twisted to tax the rest of the country who decided not to or weren't able to participate in college in the first place

As someone who has never spent a dime on student loans, I would be happy to help bail out graduates with my tax dollars. What do I care? I've been paying for the trillions dollar war for 15 years now, so paying for something this would be a breath of fresh air.

You folks are getting screwed.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#167

Post by enraged_camel » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 8:50 PM UTC

yequalsx wrote: post #133

yummyfajitas wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- university is a place where people should go to learn about things that interest them and inspire them in the company of other like-minded people whilst simultaneously growing as an individual. Sounds like a fun luxury good. Why should we subsidize such a luxury good and encourage 25-50% of the population to consume it? Should we also subsidize luxury goods enjoyed by other subcultures, e.g. video games, muscle car…

Educatuion is a public good. We all benefit when society is highly educated. The benefits might not be obtained at an individual level. That is, there will be some people whose education does not end up benefitting us all.

>>Educatuion is a public good. We all benefit when society is highly educated.

Right. The point of contention is whether we should be paying $50-150k per person for this public good.

I mean, the benefits are clearly there, but the price has been skyrocketing and when the individual can't pay back their loans, we all suffer.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#168

Post by protomyth » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 8:50 PM UTC

karma_vaccum123 wrote: post #67

icehawk219 wrote: post #10

Part of the problem is that the last few generations have been told the same thing: blue collar jobs aren't "good" jobs. You need to go to college so you can get a "good" job sitting at a desk because those other jobs are below you. If you take one of those blue collar jobs then you've failed and aren't "achieving your potential". The grand irony in all of this is that the people who did go on to become plumbers, ele…

Not only that, but "tradespeople" start earning right after high school. That four-five year head start is more meaningful than people realize. You could be making a down payment on owning your residence while your friends are still undergrads. Nothing wins in investing like being early.

Technically, some really need to go through an apprenticeship. Plumbers take a while. Most also need to go to a trade school. Your point about a head start stands though. Plus its very hard to ship those jobs overseas.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#169

Post by Broken_Hippo » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 8:51 PM UTC

davidf18 wrote: post #109

Thanks to the new health care laws, states must (or will be) spending more money on Medicaid which takes money away from public higher education. As it is, the boomer generation is funding a far lower proportion of the state public universities than their parents' generation did for them, which is really unfair. It is because of increased Medicaid costs and also because boomers aren't financing the proportion of stat…

That first point i'm not sure if it is true or not: My understanding was that the federal government was going to pay most of the money. Besides, if we as voters thought a little more and demanded better funding for schools - and say, cutting money spent on unwanted or unneeded military equipment - we could get it.

Your option for doctors to not incur medical debt is very hopeful. First, I doubt the military has enough positions for all the doctors to fill, and I doubt all doctors would be fit enough to qualify for military service. On top of that, that is 4-6 years longer before they can actually practice.

There should be a way that is much better than sending potential doctors and surgeons off to war. For instance, forgive loans to folks that work in general family practice for 7 or 8 years, less if they move and practice in an area that is in a high demand (poverty stricken area) - with the disclaimer that they must take all forms of government backed insurance.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#170

Post by melling » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 8:51 PM UTC

jrs235 wrote: post #148

melling wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you evaluate an 18 year old on their ability to pay back the loan? You ask them their major, which will probably change?

Also, one doesn't have to approve loans for the full education. Approve loans per semester. If major changes the creditor could choose not to extend anymore debt. Likewise, creditors could require transcripts as part of qualifying for loans beyond the first semester. A students grades would have weight in whether to continue extending credit (granted some [particularly for-profit] schools might cheat and inflate grad…

So you're incorrectly implying that people aren't successfully graduating?

The problem is that people are graduating with huge debt and can't get jobs that pay well enough to pay off their debt.