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IPad is Steve Jobs’ final victory over Steve Wozniak

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Re: IPad is Steve Jobs’ final victory over Steve Wozniak

#81

Post by joezydeco »

samd wrote: post #14

I found this quote from Wozniak in Founders at Work to be ironic. "You'd go to the store and they'd just have all this stuff that you could buy to enhance the Apple II. So one of our big keys to success was that we were very open. There's a big world out there for other people to come and join us."

But all of those were things that were left out of the Apple ][ project for various reasons: either they didn't exist yet (Disk ][ being the prime example), or were too expensive to add to the motherboard.

What exactly is lacking from modern hardware today? Not enough communications capability? Screen isn't large or hi-res enough?

The expandability has moved to software. That's the App Store. People are customizing their machines and adding capability, but they're doing it through the SDK and not the schematics.

Re: IPad is Steve Jobs’ final victory over Steve Wozniak

#82

Post by wrs »

While the idea of Jobs vs. Woz philosophies seems basically accurate, they diverged a bit later than the author says.

Apple had no control over the software and hardware used with the original Macintosh. The author is just flat wrong on this. The serial connectors were a bit weird for the time, but that was it. There was none of the patented-connector, crypto-signed-applications, brick-the-hacked-devices tactics we see with the i* line. The Mac OS didn't even have kernel mode. You could just rewrite all of RAM with your own code and jump to address zero if you felt like it, and people did.

The Apple //c was as "closed" as the Macintosh, and I'm pretty sure Woz had something to do with that machine (you could even get a signed limited edition).

Modern Macs are made with plenty of standard parts, and the worst that happens if you mess with them is that you void the warranty--which is exactly what happens if you mess with the insides of a Dell or HP computer.

The true divergence is that Jobs now has Apple producing consumer entertainment devices in addition to computers. Obviously, the tradeoffs and rules are different for consumer entertainment devices. Whether it's an iPhone, a PS3, or the radio in my car, the manufacturer isn't interested in supporting openness and arbitrary hacking--they are expected to make a functional, attractive product that "just works", which requires maintaining some control over what goes into it.

P.S. AT&T Wireless is the result of AT&T absorbing McCaw Cellular, and separated again from AT&T years ago, so while it's fun to talk about the irony of Jobs' blue-boxing, that wasn't really quite the same company.

Re: IPad is Steve Jobs’ final victory over Steve Wozniak

#83

Post by Daishiman »

houseabsolute wrote: post #47
abstractbill wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android gained 5.2% of the US smartphone market between December 2009 and February 2010, while the iPhone lost 0.1% ( http://www.mobileburn.com/news.jsp?Id=9184 ). Of course I'm not going to declare the iPhone a failure - it's clearly done very well. But I think it's still a little early to call it a winner.

In all likelihood both will continue to be part of the mobile ecosystem for some time, or until Google gets tired of throwing money at the problem. But as I said to another responder, the iPhone is one device on one carrier per country, and Android is many devices on all carriers. They are hardly on equal footing for a purely numerical battle for superiority, but still iPhone is winning.

Google is making real money with Android, and even if it's a loss leader it's just another medium to expand their search business. They can afford to lose the millions in Android develoment and they still come out winning.

Re: IPad is Steve Jobs’ final victory over Steve Wozniak

#84

Post by whatusername »

xiaoma wrote: post #77
whatusername wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You lost me at ringtone. My 3210 (10 years ago!) you were able to program your own ringtones (in the little beeps that it could produce) Most other nokia's (my 6110) - to use a ringtone it was a case of put an mp3 file on the phone - then select the mp3 as the ringtone. Do you know what you have to do to get a ringtone on the iPhone?

> Do you know what you have to do to get a ringtone on the iPhone? Yep. They're free. Just download them as podcasts. http://macmost.com/free-iphone-ringtones Or even use iTunes to make them out of music on your computer: http://www.ehow.com/how_2160460_custom-iphone-ringtones-free...

So if someone pre-generates a strange file-format for you - it's almost as simple as my 5 year old nokia.

Or there's a 17 step process.

The way the iPhone handles it's ringtones is a step back from how most normal phones did. (// Note to American readers - if your carrier blocks a function - it means you have a bad carrier - not a bad phone)

The iPhone excelled in having a great browser. And looking gorgeous. As far as Phone parts go (crap reception/quality, struggles with group sms, ringtones, etc) it was a step backwards from most phones on the market. Now that might be an acceptable trade-off, but it still needs to be stated.

Re: IPad is Steve Jobs’ final victory over Steve Wozniak

#85

Post by ja27 »

david927 wrote: post #26

Woz has always about being open and modular and extensible. Jobs has always been about the opposite -- and for good reason; the early Macs were typically more stable and functioned better simply because of that lock-in. But history has played this over and over again, and Woz always wins. Vendors work out standards; the user experience consolidates. If you give people the freedom and trust them, they'll work it out.…

What doesn't fit the "Jobs = closed platform" paradigm is NeXT. It came after the Mac, yet was a comparatively open platform.

Re: IPad is Steve Jobs’ final victory over Steve Wozniak

#87

Post by CamperBob »

asmithmd1 wrote: post #17
philips wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microchip announced a product just like that for the PIC platform: http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_P...

"Microchip’s three development platforms are available through Apple’s authorized Made for iPod component distributor. Customers who wish to purchase these platforms must enroll in Apple’s Made for iPod licensing program" http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_P...

What does that program cost to join, anyone know?

Re: IPad is Steve Jobs’ final victory over Steve Wozniak

#88

Post by CamperBob »

orangecat wrote: post #50
houseabsolute wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android is neither as easy to use or as sexy as the iPhone. The dismal sales of the nexus one despite it's superior spec sheet and androidness are proof of this. But I do agree with you, most people buy things out of which they get the most utility, and ease of use an sexiness are a big part of that. But the person I was responding to mad the claim that people won't buy the ipad because it is closed. It would only be…

Android is neither as easy to use or as sexy as the iPhone. The dismal sales of the nexus one despite it's superior spec sheet and androidness are proof of this. It's silly to use Nexus One sales as proof of anything because it's had almost no marketing. The Droid has sold far better: http://blog.flurry.com/bid/31410/Day-74-Sales-Apple-iPhone-v...

It's silly to use Nexus One sales as proof of anything because it's had almost no marketing.

It had a hell of a lot more marketing than the iPad did, and was still trounced by the latter's preorders alone.

Re: IPad is Steve Jobs’ final victory over Steve Wozniak

#89

Post by CamperBob »

gte910h wrote: post #30
tumult wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they don't. Stop repeating this lie. They reject App Store applications which allow users to load in external code which is executed.

You're wrong. Read section 3.3.2 of http://www.eff.org/files/20100302_iphone_dev_agr.pdf Search the document for "interpreted code" They expressly forbid it except for "included interpreters" aka javascript. So hypercard is out of the running.

That can't be the case, or Unity3D wouldn't be able to use Mono on the iPhone.

Re: IPad is Steve Jobs’ final victory over Steve Wozniak

#90

Post by copenja »

houseabsolute wrote: post #35
samd wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The consumer isn't choosing the iPhone or iPad because it is closed, they are choosing it because it is easy to use, sexy, and supported by lots of apps. You can still have those things and be open, and Android is proving it.

Android is neither as easy to use or as sexy as the iPhone. The dismal sales of the nexus one despite it's superior spec sheet and androidness are proof of this. But I do agree with you, most people buy things out of which they get the most utility, and ease of use an sexiness are a big part of that. But the person I was responding to mad the claim that people won't buy the ipad because it is closed. It would only be…

Sales don't prove sexiness or ease of use.

Consider sales of the Droid. In it's first 74 days it sold more units than the original iPhone did in it's first 74 days.

http://mashable.com/2010/03/16/nexus-one-sales-poor/

But I'm not going to say that proves that the Droid is sexier than the iPhone.

Hell, there both great phones.

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