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IPad is Steve Jobs’ final victory over Steve Wozniak

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Re: IPad is Steve Jobs’ final victory over Steve Wozniak

#31

Post by wmf »

baguasquirrel wrote: post #27

I get this same vibe from a lot of older folks (or people who want to sound like them, all grizzled and what). True, from a hardware standpoint, Apple devices are closed. What matters today however, is that they are open devices from the perspective of a platform and web software developer. Has everyone forgot how cellphones were black boxes before the iPhone? And lets not forget that we make stuff for normal people…

Has everyone forgot how cellphones were black boxes before the iPhone?

I must have forgotten that because it isn't true. On my P800 or Blackberry I could install any app, not just approved ones.

(Edit: I wonder if this meme about the "cell phone dark ages" comes from the millions of people who switched from dumbphones to iPhone and thus aren't personally familiar with the actual smartphone state of the art circa 2006.)

Re: IPad is Steve Jobs’ final victory over Steve Wozniak

#32

Post by samd »

houseabsolute wrote: post #28
david927 wrote: post #26

Woz has always about being open and modular and extensible. Jobs has always been about the opposite -- and for good reason; the early Macs were typically more stable and functioned better simply because of that lock-in. But history has played this over and over again, and Woz always wins. Vendors work out standards; the user experience consolidates. If you give people the freedom and trust them, they'll work it out.…

> Let's just tune in and watch the sales of the iPad starting next month We already watched the sales of the iPhone, and we saw how that went. Same type of device, same type of complaints by openness advocate, and what was the result? Are you guys going to just keep on saying this stuff until some closed Apple product fails, then say that's proof that people want openness, ignoring the litany of preceding closed devi…

The consumer isn't choosing the iPhone or iPad because it is closed, they are choosing it because it is easy to use, sexy, and supported by lots of apps. You can still have those things and be open, and Android is proving it.

Re: IPad is Steve Jobs’ final victory over Steve Wozniak

#33

Post by nkassis »

glhaynes wrote: post #24
thought_alarm wrote: post #16

It's funny how so many people are suddenly mischaracterizing the Apple II or the nature of early personal computers. The very first personal computers, like the Apple II, were sold as development kits to developers/hobbyists because these were the only people who would even think to buy a personal computer in 1976 and 1977. These development kits contain all of the information one would need to create software and ha…

I almost entirely agree with your post, though I'll note that the Apple II was unique specifically because it came pre-assembled in a plastic case and was marketed to "regular people". Still, obviously most users were hobbyists, just less "hardcore" than those who assembled their own Altairs.

and the comodore 64 was a kit?

Re: IPad is Steve Jobs’ final victory over Steve Wozniak

#34

Post by abstractbill »

houseabsolute wrote: post #28
david927 wrote: post #26

Woz has always about being open and modular and extensible. Jobs has always been about the opposite -- and for good reason; the early Macs were typically more stable and functioned better simply because of that lock-in. But history has played this over and over again, and Woz always wins. Vendors work out standards; the user experience consolidates. If you give people the freedom and trust them, they'll work it out.…

> Let's just tune in and watch the sales of the iPad starting next month We already watched the sales of the iPhone, and we saw how that went. Same type of device, same type of complaints by openness advocate, and what was the result? Are you guys going to just keep on saying this stuff until some closed Apple product fails, then say that's proof that people want openness, ignoring the litany of preceding closed devi…

Android gained 5.2% of the US smartphone market between December 2009 and February 2010, while the iPhone lost 0.1% (http://www.mobileburn.com/news.jsp?Id=9184).

Of course I'm not going to declare the iPhone a failure - it's clearly done very well. But I think it's still a little early to call it a winner.

Re: IPad is Steve Jobs’ final victory over Steve Wozniak

#35

Post by houseabsolute »

samd wrote: post #32
houseabsolute wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's just tune in and watch the sales of the iPad starting next month We already watched the sales of the iPhone, and we saw how that went. Same type of device, same type of complaints by openness advocate, and what was the result? Are you guys going to just keep on saying this stuff until some closed Apple product fails, then say that's proof that people want openness, ignoring the litany of preceding closed devi…

The consumer isn't choosing the iPhone or iPad because it is closed, they are choosing it because it is easy to use, sexy, and supported by lots of apps. You can still have those things and be open, and Android is proving it.

Android is neither as easy to use or as sexy as the iPhone. The dismal sales of the nexus one despite it's superior spec sheet and androidness are proof of this.

But I do agree with you, most people buy things out of which they get the most utility, and ease of use an sexiness are a big part of that. But the person I was responding to mad the claim that people won't buy the ipad because it is closed. It would only be possible to believe this if your head was buried deep in the sand.

Re: IPad is Steve Jobs’ final victory over Steve Wozniak

#36

Post by nkassis »

After reading this book about Commodore: http://www.amazon.com/Edge-Spectacular-Rise-Fall-Commodore/d...

and a few other good accounts of the period, it really annoys me that Apple get the credit for inventing the personal computer. They were not even the most popular personal computer of the 80s (or 70s). I have a hard time finding anyone who own a Apple II but most of the people I work with were Commodore 64 owners.

Re: IPad is Steve Jobs’ final victory over Steve Wozniak

#37

Post by rbanffy »

nkassis wrote: post #33
glhaynes wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I almost entirely agree with your post, though I'll note that the Apple II was unique specifically because it came pre-assembled in a plastic case and was marketed to "regular people". Still, obviously most users were hobbyists, just less "hardcore" than those who assembled their own Altairs.

and the comodore 64 was a kit?

The 64 appeared much later.

Re: IPad is Steve Jobs’ final victory over Steve Wozniak

#38

Post by rbanffy »

> Wozniak, an inveterate prankster, ran an illegal "dial-a-joke" operation

"illegal"?! I am not aware it would be illegal to run such a service at that time.

> the Macintosh was a radical innovation in its own right, being the first mass-produced computer to feature a "mouse" and a "desktop

Lisa? Star? Although that last one was not "mass-produced", at least it came out of a factory.

Re: IPad is Steve Jobs’ final victory over Steve Wozniak

#39

Post by drenei »

wmf wrote: post #31
baguasquirrel wrote: post #27

I get this same vibe from a lot of older folks (or people who want to sound like them, all grizzled and what). True, from a hardware standpoint, Apple devices are closed. What matters today however, is that they are open devices from the perspective of a platform and web software developer. Has everyone forgot how cellphones were black boxes before the iPhone? And lets not forget that we make stuff for normal people…

Has everyone forgot how cellphones were black boxes before the iPhone? I must have forgotten that because it isn't true. On my P800 or Blackberry I could install any app, not just approved ones. (Edit: I wonder if this meme about the "cell phone dark ages" comes from the millions of people who switched from dumbphones to iPhone and thus aren't personally familiar with the actual smartphone state of the art circa 2006…

I can't speak for where you are, but here in North America (well Canada & the USA) to go from [cell phone customized for service provider] to [cell phone customized for you with apps that you selected to use] was never a simple process - perhaps easier on a blackberry but not simple.

The device makers simply didn't have enough leverage to make the process simple.

Re: IPad is Steve Jobs’ final victory over Steve Wozniak

#40

Post by RyanMcGreal »

houseabsolute wrote: post #28
david927 wrote: post #26

Woz has always about being open and modular and extensible. Jobs has always been about the opposite -- and for good reason; the early Macs were typically more stable and functioned better simply because of that lock-in. But history has played this over and over again, and Woz always wins. Vendors work out standards; the user experience consolidates. If you give people the freedom and trust them, they'll work it out.…

> Let's just tune in and watch the sales of the iPad starting next month We already watched the sales of the iPhone, and we saw how that went. Same type of device, same type of complaints by openness advocate, and what was the result? Are you guys going to just keep on saying this stuff until some closed Apple product fails, then say that's proof that people want openness, ignoring the litany of preceding closed devi…

iPhone market share is respectable but hardly dominant:

http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/the_truth_about_apple...

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