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Vim 8.0 released

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Re: Vim 8.0 released

#271

Post by brazzledazzle »

flukus wrote: post #267
executesorder66 wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm linking this[0] post, not to talk about why/if neovim is better than vim, but rather because it gives a nice overview of why that patch was rejected, and why neovim was started. [0] http://geoff.greer.fm/2015/01/15/why-neovim-is-better-than-v...

Look at the linked mailing list thread. It wasn't rejected, there were several adjustments for coding conventions, naming, etc and the last thing Bram mentioned was basically "we'll consider it". Then the developer threw a hissy fit a few days later and created a fork because his patch wasn't accepted right away.

I remember when that went down and I was sympathetic. It was a shit show and a total waste of their time. I would have been angry enough to start a competing project too.

Re: Vim 8.0 released

#272

Post by allendoerfer »

deathanatos wrote: post #269
allendoerfer wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is tmux's job. Do one thing well.

I use ConqueTerm, inside vim, a plugin that supplies a terminal inside Vim. If you put the emulator inside the editor, you can take advantage of vim's extremely capable text manipulation. If I tmux then vim, I have to find some way to get the text out of tmux, and then back into vim. Also, who says vim is running in a terminal?

Living inside the terminal, multiplexing is useful even when not using Vim and I think Tmux is a better multiplexer than Vim. I would need to use Tmux anyway for it's sessions.

I already use Tmux inside a tiling window manager and generally try to avoid manually managing panes inside Vim, mostly only tabs. There is a finite amount of hierarchical panes and tabs you can work with intuitively, before you wonder why they won't accept each others keyboard shortcuts, especially when you use the same color scheme in Vim, Tmux and Awesome.

> If I tmux then vim, I have to find some way to get the text out of tmux, and then back into vim.

That's actually a valid concern. I use piping for that, but it's not ideal at all. Maybe I will try it out.

Re: Vim 8.0 released

#273

Post by fatbird »

mempko wrote: post #254
shazow wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anyone is curious, here is the thread in question where the vim async API was proposed and the neovim devs proposed collaboration and were shut down without actually looking at the details: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/vim_dev/_SbMTGshzVc/... Some choice posts: - Bram (vim author's) response to whether he looked at existing implementation in neovim: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/vim_dev/_SbMTGshzVc/wX…

I'm sorry, but Thiago's response is clearly patronising. Giving Bram advice on how to "properly" implement channels and job control. Suggesting taking the old infamous old patch. I got pissed off for Bram reading it. Also Bram had much more detailed and valid criticism about neovim's implementation above the response you linked. Did you intentionally link that one to make Bram look bad or did you simply not read the…

Thiago's response comes from several years of experience actually doing and having done what Bram what proposing: first creating the async path for vim, fighting for its acceptance, then forking vim, implementing it, and shepherding it as the key feature of neovim. So far, I've heard no major complaints about neovim's async; it's actually been the killer feature so far.

Bram might be the more experienced programmer overall, but for implementing async in vim, I'll take Thiago's learned opinion over Bram's 'the horse has been dragged to water' solution anyday.

Re: Vim 8.0 released

#274

Post by nitrogen »

adrianratnapala wrote: post #261
riboflava wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the parent but I have the same reaction, and I wouldn't describe my experience in big IDEs as "comfort", just less pain. I use them with Java only out of necessity, and only on huge projects I didn't have a part in designing up front. Every other programming language I've used a lot of (spanning from assembly to lisp) I've found it most pleasant to work in vim, even in large projects. I suspect the only other env…

I found Vi to work perfectly well for C#. Visual Studio would have been better, if I could have got a decent Windows desktop to span both of my monitors. But since my employer at the time didn't want to get a Windows PC or get a Visual Studio license for this Windows desktop application project, Vim + Samba + SSH were a workable substitute.

I don't know if it's still there, but at one point (some?) MS licenses had an audit clause that would allow the BSA or MS to raid your employer at their expense. That could be one reason for a non-MS shop not to want to get any MS licenses.

Re: Vim 8.0 released

#275

Post by JoshTriplett »

flukus wrote: post #245
joemi wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That feels like the realm of a plugin, IMO. (I don't know enough to know whether or not that type of thing could be done via plugin, though.)

With the new async support it should be relatively simple, weekend project simple for a basic implementation.

Depends on how you implement it. neovim's implementation uses libvterm, which seems preferable to a from-scratch terminal implementation. Implementing a fully capable terminal emulator from scratch definitely isn't a weekend project.

neovim's approach links libvterm in via C. You could potentially do so via python and ctypes instead, but then you have to count on having a vim compiled with Python support.

Re: Vim 8.0 released

#276

Post by JoshTriplett »

allendoerfer wrote: post #272
deathanatos wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use ConqueTerm, inside vim, a plugin that supplies a terminal inside Vim. If you put the emulator inside the editor, you can take advantage of vim's extremely capable text manipulation. If I tmux then vim, I have to find some way to get the text out of tmux, and then back into vim. Also, who says vim is running in a terminal?

Living inside the terminal, multiplexing is useful even when not using Vim and I think Tmux is a better multiplexer than Vim. I would need to use Tmux anyway for it's sessions. I already use Tmux inside a tiling window manager and generally try to avoid manually managing panes inside Vim, mostly only tabs. There is a finite amount of hierarchical panes and tabs you can work with intuitively, before you wonder why the…

> There is a finite amount of hierarchical panes and tabs you can work with intuitively, before you wonder why they won't accept each others keyboard shortcuts

Exactly the reason I want to manage terminals in vim. I already heavily use splitting in vim, and find it much faster and simpler to use than screen or tmux. In addition, I typically want integration between those splits, such as displaying the quickfix list in one, or showing 2-3 files in vimdiff, or yanking and pasting between files. Given that, I'd like to just open one more split in vim and have a terminal in it.

The original motivating use case for me: a vertical split, editing a manpage on one side, and showing a continuously updated render of the manpage on the other (using watch).

Re: Vim 8.0 released

#277

Post by reflexive »

__s wrote: post #251
reflexive wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not going to stand still and do nothing The advice "Don't just do something, stand there!" comes to mind. Bram has been going to Kibaale since 1994, and he's now presumably busy feeding and clothing a new generation of orphaned children, orphaned by the original orphans. Isn't this precisely the creation of a trans-generational cycle of dependency by Western patrons? Wouldn't those people rather be in a positio…

How do you know they're the children of children he's helped? Latest news posting underlines emphasis on education & getting people employed http://iccf-holland.org/news.html

I'm all for individual achievements, but I wouldn't call turning people into lawyers and Arsenal supporters an unequivocally positive outcome.

Should you feel moved to give to Bram's organization, at least consider an offsetting donation to help address the eradication of pristine savannah, extinctions from over-hunting, elimination of biodiversity, and other imbalances which will naturally occur when a human population is suddenly freed from all checks on growth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibaale_District#Population

Or one might consider just making the world a better place by doing something we actually understand - like, writing software and doing our jobs, instead of staying up late $#!+posting ;-)

Re: Vim 8.0 released

#278

Post by weitzj »

stephenboyd wrote: post #127
dominotw wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'transform Vim into an embeddable text editor engine' I think that was the main objective of the project. Would be nice to real vim in IntelliJ idea.

As a naive IntelliJ user, I found myself editing files with Vim in IntelliJ's terminal console.

I was amazed when I discovered the console and everything works. I can launch vim, neovim and tig(nurses git front-end) from within IntelliJ and all shortcuts just work. Even fish shell in vi mode or tmux. So yeah, I have the shell running in IntelliJ with tmux enabled and launch tig inside of it.

Re: Vim 8.0 released

#279

Post by flukus »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #275
flukus wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the new async support it should be relatively simple, weekend project simple for a basic implementation.

Depends on how you implement it. neovim's implementation uses libvterm, which seems preferable to a from-scratch terminal implementation. Implementing a fully capable terminal emulator from scratch definitely isn't a weekend project. neovim's approach links libvterm in via C. You could potentially do so via python and ctypes instead, but then you have to count on having a vim compiled with Python support.

I was thinking I'd just start sh/cmd in a process and use stdin/stdout. The api even allows for automatically sending appended lines to stdin.

Re: Vim 8.0 released

#280

Post by davidshepherd7 »

desireco42 wrote: post #191
weavie wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I run on an eight year old Thinkpad. I run my own config now, but used Spacemacs for quite some time. I've never had problems with speed. I didn't use it with Elixir though. Perhaps try disabling your layers one at a time to see where the problem is.

I don't think it is Elixir, it is Helm most likely as someone already mentioned. I am using Vim and Emacs and I do notice significant difference in response to commands. Helm is super helpful, so most likely I will disable it and see how it goes.

You could try looking at using ivy instead of helm. Not tried it myself but there was a thread on the emacs reddit last week [1] where people said it's much faster.

https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/51lqn9/helm_or_ivy/

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