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Fortress of Tedium: What I Learned as a Substitute Teacher

nytimes.com

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Re: Fortress of Tedium: What I Learned as a Substitute Teacher

#21

Post by r00fus »

themartorana wrote: post #3

...high school is wondrously efficient at making interesting things dull..." Ain't that the truth. I learned that not because I recognized it my day to day as a student, but because I had one or two teachers in high school that were absolutely exceptional (I was lucky, some kids encounter none) and the droning background noise of the rest of education became very stark in comparison. It's impossible to teach hundreds…

Could common core be saved if the NLCB mandatory testing and rating of schools be removed?

It's the testing and what's being tested that sounds mind killing.

Re: Fortress of Tedium: What I Learned as a Substitute Teacher

#22

Post by bsder »

khedoros wrote: post #20
bsder wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Here's a secret: That's the point of the class. School is mainly there to teach you to take assignments, follow directions, and cough up results on demand, irrespective of whether you actually care about the subject. It's a much-in-demand business skill. I get tired of people dumping on schools. The problem with school is that most of the consumers of said education are unmotivated slackers whom you practically hav…

> The problem with school is that most of the consumers of said education are unmotivated slackers whom you practically have to beat the information into. So, we agree there's a problem. It's immaterial if the issue is in the school itself or in the students. The material fact is that the tool you're using (the current educational system) isn't having the effect that you want (imparting useful information and useful…

> It's immaterial if the issue is in the school itself or in the students.

Um, that is, in fact, kind of a VERY big deal. If the problem is the students, your solutions are mostly about fixing things outside the school.

> The material fact is that the tool you're using (the current educational system) isn't having the effect that you want (imparting useful information and useful ways to think about it).

I somewhat disagree with this. The system appears to be generating a certain average level of education. We would like the system to be generating a higher average level of education. No one has yet shown that there is a better way of doing this than the current system, sadly, without expending a lot more focused resource than people are politically willing to exert.

> I think it's more useful to assume that they aren't inherently slackers and diagnose and fix the problems in the system to improve the experience for the students and the outcome for society, overall.

The problem isn't that students don't want an education--the problem is that there is almost always something right now (sports, guys/girls, video games, Facebook/Snapchat/Line) that they want more.

This is what a school is fighting against. Good luck.

Re: Fortress of Tedium: What I Learned as a Substitute Teacher

#23

Post by teslabox »

bsder wrote: post #22
khedoros wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem with school is that most of the consumers of said education are unmotivated slackers whom you practically have to beat the information into. So, we agree there's a problem. It's immaterial if the issue is in the school itself or in the students. The material fact is that the tool you're using (the current educational system) isn't having the effect that you want (imparting useful information and useful…

> It's immaterial if the issue is in the school itself or in the students. Um, that is, in fact, kind of a VERY big deal. If the problem is the students, your solutions are mostly about fixing things outside the school. > The material fact is that the tool you're using (the current educational system) isn't having the effect that you want (imparting useful information and useful ways to think about it). I somewhat di…

> No one has yet shown that there is a better way of doing this than the current system, sadly, without expending a lot more focused resource than people are politically willing to exert.

John Holt wrote "how children fail" and "how children learn" at least 40 years ago. John Gatto wrote "Dumbing Us Down: The Hidden Curriculum of Compulsory Schooling" 25 years ago.

The education problem is very well defined, but it can't be fixed or addressed because of inertia, and because of who benefits from the status quo.

Re: Fortress of Tedium: What I Learned as a Substitute Teacher

#24

Post by jschwartzi »

r00fus wrote: post #21
themartorana wrote: post #3

...high school is wondrously efficient at making interesting things dull..." Ain't that the truth. I learned that not because I recognized it my day to day as a student, but because I had one or two teachers in high school that were absolutely exceptional (I was lucky, some kids encounter none) and the droning background noise of the rest of education became very stark in comparison. It's impossible to teach hundreds…

Could common core be saved if the NLCB mandatory testing and rating of schools be removed? It's the testing and what's being tested that sounds mind killing.

IMO, the whole idea that all children must exit school knowing the exact same things is the problem, not any specific thing like NCLB or Common Core. The people designing our education system appear to think of children as a raw material to be processed into a uniform commodity, and that's where all the trouble comes from.

Re: Fortress of Tedium: What I Learned as a Substitute Teacher

#25

Post by khedoros »

bsder wrote: post #22
khedoros wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem with school is that most of the consumers of said education are unmotivated slackers whom you practically have to beat the information into. So, we agree there's a problem. It's immaterial if the issue is in the school itself or in the students. The material fact is that the tool you're using (the current educational system) isn't having the effect that you want (imparting useful information and useful…

> It's immaterial if the issue is in the school itself or in the students. Um, that is, in fact, kind of a VERY big deal. If the problem is the students, your solutions are mostly about fixing things outside the school. > The material fact is that the tool you're using (the current educational system) isn't having the effect that you want (imparting useful information and useful ways to think about it). I somewhat di…

We've got the example of places like Finland, that are supposed to be much more successful than U.S. schools. They've got the same distractions, technological and social, that are available in the rest of the world.

It's a very different country than the U.S., but it gives me hope that there's a better way to structure our school system.

Re: Fortress of Tedium: What I Learned as a Substitute Teacher

#26

Post by PeterWhittaker »

iopq wrote: post #8
combatentropy wrote: post #5

The article was fun to read, deceptively informal. In fact the writing is brilliant. Almost every sentence has some delightful, unexpected word or phrase instead of cliche. It also relies heavily on sound. Even when you read silently, you hear the words. So alliteration, echo, rhyme, and rhythm are still important.

I thought the writing was boring. I had to skip around to get to the part where he hated schools. Then he didn't really make any conclusion anyway except "less structure, lol"

I'm with you: I found it rambling and unappealing.

Re: Fortress of Tedium: What I Learned as a Substitute Teacher

#27

Post by bsder »

khedoros wrote: post #25
bsder wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's immaterial if the issue is in the school itself or in the students. Um, that is, in fact, kind of a VERY big deal. If the problem is the students, your solutions are mostly about fixing things outside the school. > The material fact is that the tool you're using (the current educational system) isn't having the effect that you want (imparting useful information and useful ways to think about it). I somewhat di…

We've got the example of places like Finland, that are supposed to be much more successful than U.S. schools. They've got the same distractions, technological and social, that are available in the rest of the world. It's a very different country than the U.S., but it gives me hope that there's a better way to structure our school system.

> It's a very different country than the U.S., but it gives me hope that there's a better way to structure our school system.

I am watching how they integrate refugees to see if the "system" or the "homogeneity" is the cause of better educational outcomes.

So far, the "system" seems to be losing to the "homogeneity" argument.

Re: Fortress of Tedium: What I Learned as a Substitute Teacher

#28

Post by bsder »

teslabox wrote: post #23
bsder wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's immaterial if the issue is in the school itself or in the students. Um, that is, in fact, kind of a VERY big deal. If the problem is the students, your solutions are mostly about fixing things outside the school. > The material fact is that the tool you're using (the current educational system) isn't having the effect that you want (imparting useful information and useful ways to think about it). I somewhat di…

> No one has yet shown that there is a better way of doing this than the current system, sadly, without expending a lot more focused resource than people are politically willing to exert. John Holt wrote "how children fail" and "how children learn" at least 40 years ago. John Gatto wrote "Dumbing Us Down: The Hidden Curriculum of Compulsory Schooling" 25 years ago. The education problem is very well defined, but it c…

> John Holt wrote "how children fail" and "how children learn" at least 40 years ago. John Gatto wrote "Dumbing Us Down: The Hidden Curriculum of Compulsory Schooling" 25 years ago.

Holt is not a particularly good figure to cite to back up your assertions. "Education" books are like most "business" books, very little research and data to back up scores of anecdotes. This doesn't automatically make him wrong, but many of his ideas have been overturned and refuted by actual research and investigation.

However, your point stands and we are in agreement with the fact that there is no political will to expend the resource required to improve educational attainment.

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