Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#61

Post by anexprogrammer » Mon, Sep 12, 2016, 3:47 PM UTC

equalarrow wrote: post #18

I don't get why this is such an issue. I understand the sheer numbers of people that use fb and get their 'news' from it, but it amazes me that people are shocked that fb censors the content. Facebook never claimed to be a news organization nor part of the 5th estate (which, pretty much doesn't exist). So that being the case, I would never expect fb to be a partner for democracy. Just because some recent revolutions…

That seems, to me, to miss the point.

No one is surprised a private company censors content, it's the cultural homogenisation on a global service that can grate, even though it's no surprise. A global service that tries very hard to be the global platform for everything, including news publication (that may have been unsuccessful). No surprise after many years of this most people's networks are on Facebook.

No doubt to an American some of the things I, as a Brit, think and do will be plain weird yet Brits are quite close compared to some nations. For all us outsiders, FB (and other US sites) and US attitudes to nudity and violence are, well, interesting. Usually just amusing, sometimes it can be annoying like in the case of this globally famous photo. Don't forget none of us foreigners have a first amendment or rights under it - so that's not even relevant to us.

It wouldn't be that hard to have regional appropriate guidelines for censorship, acceptable behaviour and what have you. Then Americans could have American mores, Norwegians theirs, and we can be confused, amused or fascinated when something goes viral enough to overlap.

I'd like to preserve more of the global differences - it's what makes the world interesting. We might find others do some things better.

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#62

Post by kstenerud » Mon, Sep 12, 2016, 3:49 PM UTC

equalarrow wrote: post #18

I don't get why this is such an issue. I understand the sheer numbers of people that use fb and get their 'news' from it, but it amazes me that people are shocked that fb censors the content. Facebook never claimed to be a news organization nor part of the 5th estate (which, pretty much doesn't exist). So that being the case, I would never expect fb to be a partner for democracy. Just because some recent revolutions…

Because Facebook has become so big that it's essentially a cultural hub, which means that it can have a serious effect on world cultures. Think about this for a moment: Facebook, governed by strict Muslim cultural code. Womens' faces are not allowed. Any picture of an uncovered woman is summarily deleted. Would that work for you? Would you feel that Facebook is perfectly within its rights, and that you should like it or lump it?

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#63

Post by antirez » Mon, Sep 12, 2016, 3:50 PM UTC

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #51

antirez wrote: post #37

The United States are a great country, but in the topic of censorship, balanced politically correctness and easy to speak about all the topics, I believe that the old Europe has very interesting things to say, so I'm also a bit worried that the technological leadership of US may have an effect on what is believed to be sensible to discuss / post in Europe too. I hope is the other way, that is, we european can in some…

> I believe that the old Europe has very interesting things to say If anything European countries are much more deeply invested into censorship than the US. The UK's incredibly short sighted libel laws for example. Or the EU's ridiculous "hate speech" laws. I find it amusing you decry US political correctness in favor or Europe's much more tough legislation. Also the EU censors items on Facebook all the time, usually…

I totally agree that governments are at least as bad, what I think here is the ability of the average people to be less sensible and more open to the amount of subjects that can be talked / posted / ... About governments, I see US much more able to avoid succumbing to attempts to limit Internet freedom and so forth. However even if the American elite is doing great, Facebook will tend to employ censorship to make happy the average person, so there is the risk of restrictive policies that are not needed or even counter-productive for the rest of the world.

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#64

Post by firasd » Mon, Sep 12, 2016, 3:50 PM UTC

mgleason_3 wrote: post #50

firasd wrote: post #7

It's true that Facebook (and Twitter, Youtube, etc.) are expressing the point of view of the platform creators as to 'acceptable content' and it's worth pointing out. On the other hand, if I made a product that hosted user generated content I would probably have pretty similar guidelines to them. e.g. Yes the "nipple double standards" can be criticized but given current cultural norms, when this limit doesn't exist,…

But, thats exactly the point. Americans are so bought into the idea that "explicit" images are bad that they can't see another viewpoint. Its become "natural". And, as the author pointed out, Americans are so blind to it that you don't even see the problem with censoring nipples but not beheadings. You literally cant see that noone should be injured by seeing a womans breast, but seeing a beheaded body could. Its int…

A few things. I'm not American (I'm from India) and I think that fact, plus your point about Yelp, gets to the flipside: that American social media giants' standards are actually more relaxed than the media of many countries, especially non-European countries, when it comes to sexuality, political speech, defamation, etc.

As far as beheadings, I'm not sure but I'd assume Facebook is not trying to be a 'gore' destination either. It's the same problem, whether it comes to limits on sex or violence, if you allow any type of media you create havens for that type of content and then it changes the contours of your product. It's all subjective of course, and different companies set different limits--Apple's app store is well known to be more restrictive than Google play, Facebook more restrictive than Twitter, etc.

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#65

Post by sp332 » Mon, Sep 12, 2016, 3:50 PM UTC

Aw, let's be fair now. After all they also ban religious material at the request of the Pakistani government http://tribune.com.pk/story/855030/facebook-censored-54-post... and political content for Hong Kong too! http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/news/art/20100205/13699972 (translation https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&pr... )

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#66

Post by ubernostrum » Mon, Sep 12, 2016, 3:50 PM UTC

dmix wrote: post #42

antirez wrote: post #37

The United States are a great country, but in the topic of censorship, balanced politically correctness and easy to speak about all the topics, I believe that the old Europe has very interesting things to say, so I'm also a bit worried that the technological leadership of US may have an effect on what is believed to be sensible to discuss / post in Europe too. I hope is the other way, that is, we european can in some…

France in the 18-19th century had many smart people who spoke against this type of stuff (everyone loves to quote Voltaire). But modern France has become the absolute counter-point for wishing to have less censorship and centralized social control. So this problem isn't limited to the United States. This is an issue in all modern liberal societies. Big government and centralized control has exploded over the last cen…

Admittedly I have not read this book you recommend.

However, my experience with such arguments is that they never persuade me "big government" is suddenly intruding into places it didn't previously, since the truth is more often that government was suddenly being deployed in support of people it was traditionally deployed against, and against people it was traditionally deployed in support of.

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#67

Post by merraksh » Mon, Sep 12, 2016, 3:51 PM UTC

Facebook ploughed on – before performing an embarrassing 360 and claiming that it was imposing this policy out of concern for victims.

A 360 would be embarrassing as it places you back to the same road. Perhaps it was an "embarrassing 180" instead.

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#68

Post by hx87 » Mon, Sep 12, 2016, 3:53 PM UTC

dmix wrote: post #42

antirez wrote: post #37

The United States are a great country, but in the topic of censorship, balanced politically correctness and easy to speak about all the topics, I believe that the old Europe has very interesting things to say, so I'm also a bit worried that the technological leadership of US may have an effect on what is believed to be sensible to discuss / post in Europe too. I hope is the other way, that is, we european can in some…

France in the 18-19th century had many smart people who spoke against this type of stuff (everyone loves to quote Voltaire). But modern France has become the absolute counter-point for wishing to have less censorship and centralized social control. So this problem isn't limited to the United States. This is an issue in all modern liberal societies. Big government and centralized control has exploded over the last cen…

The state is ubiquitous now, but it also administers with a much lighter hand than it used to--even relatively liberal states in the past regulated public and private morality rather heavily, and even the most authoritarian states rarely police as harshly as the average 19th century government does.

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#69

Post by soufron » Mon, Sep 12, 2016, 3:54 PM UTC

1. This won't last as people will want their own cultural and legal rules to apply on Facebook.

2. Facebook is not just a private company anymore. It's cool to have success, but that comes with bigger public scrutiny, and possibly a lot more obligations than a normal startup who would have only a few users.

3. Don't think this is minor. Facebook will need to evolve, even in the US. This is a matter of Free Speech and Freedom of Thought.

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#70

Post by briandear » Mon, Sep 12, 2016, 3:56 PM UTC

mgleason_3 wrote: post #50

firasd wrote: post #7

It's true that Facebook (and Twitter, Youtube, etc.) are expressing the point of view of the platform creators as to 'acceptable content' and it's worth pointing out. On the other hand, if I made a product that hosted user generated content I would probably have pretty similar guidelines to them. e.g. Yes the "nipple double standards" can be criticized but given current cultural norms, when this limit doesn't exist,…

But, thats exactly the point. Americans are so bought into the idea that "explicit" images are bad that they can't see another viewpoint. Its become "natural". And, as the author pointed out, Americans are so blind to it that you don't even see the problem with censoring nipples but not beheadings. You literally cant see that noone should be injured by seeing a womans breast, but seeing a beheaded body could. Its int…

Americans? How about the British, Mexico, Singapore, China, Japan, Korea, every country in the Middle East except Israel?

Then you have a German freak out over even talking about Nazis.

Almost every country has some hang up or another. Suggesting that 'Americans' have a fear of nipples is short sighted. Every culture has something that causes a collective freakout.