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Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#41

Post by [deleted] »

az0xff wrote: post #6
sp332 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is a given. When Facebook is many people's main communications platform and source of news, censoring Facebook is, effectively, censoring communication and news. Since they have such power to affect our societies, they should have some obligations.

It will be interesting to see how this fact will come up in legislative discussions. Has it happened before -- that so many people ended up relying on a single corporations that the corporation needed to take on special obligations?

[deleted]

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#42

Post by dmix »

antirez wrote: post #37

The United States are a great country, but in the topic of censorship, balanced politically correctness and easy to speak about all the topics, I believe that the old Europe has very interesting things to say, so I'm also a bit worried that the technological leadership of US may have an effect on what is believed to be sensible to discuss / post in Europe too. I hope is the other way, that is, we european can in some…

France in the 18-19th century had many smart people who spoke against this type of stuff (everyone loves to quote Voltaire). But modern France has become the absolute counter-point for wishing to have less censorship and centralized social control. So this problem isn't limited to the United States.

This is an issue in all modern liberal societies. Big government and centralized control has exploded over the last century, nation-states have become bigger than they've been in any time in history. The first half of the book "Fourth Revolution" has a really great history of how the state has massively grown, largely starting after WW2, to the point it becomes embedded in every parts of our lives (whether it's explicit or not). This type of thing always happens through small slivers and cuts, largely promoted via community complaints calling for government to solve issues - much like what Facebook has experienced.

This is the side-effect of a society where the hair-trigger response to every small problem is to look to government to solve it - not just economic but social issues too. Instead of resolving them internally or via community, or just moving on because the solution is sometimes worse than the problem (see: terrorism).

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Fourth-Revolution-Global-Reinvent-Sta...

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#43

Post by king_magic »

throwanem wrote: post #31
mark_l_watson wrote: post #17

The FSF has a lot of good material to read on why we don't want centralized control of our data. Applies to Facebook, Google, etc. As a card carrying FSF member (and supporter of EFF, ACLU, Software Conservancy) it embarrases me a little that I probably spend 30 minutes a day using Facebook, Google +, and Twitter; but I enjoy them, I keep the material I produce largely on my own infrastructure, and I work to prevent…

FSF has a lot of problems, too, like an unresolved contradiction in its rhetoric between claimed populism ("everyone can be free!") and evident elitism ("but if you don't choose to act in exactly the way we promote, to hell with you!") I thought hard about joining, but I'm not comfortable with endorsing such a contradictory and self-defeating stance. I don't see why you should be embarrassed to use Facebook et cetera…

I agree with you, and I think it's a shame people are downvoting you.

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#44

Post by axlee »

equalarrow wrote: post #18

I don't get why this is such an issue. I understand the sheer numbers of people that use fb and get their 'news' from it, but it amazes me that people are shocked that fb censors the content. Facebook never claimed to be a news organization nor part of the 5th estate (which, pretty much doesn't exist). So that being the case, I would never expect fb to be a partner for democracy. Just because some recent revolutions…

I think the issue raised here is that Facebook censors content according to rules based entirely on American values, while parading as some sort of global organization, "connecting the world" type-of-thing.

What is morally acceptable to see on a feed for an American is not the same for a Norwegian, a Japanese or a Sudanese. The author mentions sexuality/nudity content here, which is a blatant cultural difference between Europe and the US, but there are so many more regional variations among the hundred of countries where Facebook operates.

Facebook is definitely entitled to censor content as they see fit, but we are also entitled to criticize their policy. Here, it seems that the main criticism is the americano-centric view of what is inadequate content.

Maybe Facebook should look into developing local content rules instead of relying on a guideline written in California by Californians for Californians?

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#45

Post by John23832 »

antirez wrote: post #37

The United States are a great country, but in the topic of censorship, balanced politically correctness and easy to speak about all the topics, I believe that the old Europe has very interesting things to say, so I'm also a bit worried that the technological leadership of US may have an effect on what is believed to be sensible to discuss / post in Europe too. I hope is the other way, that is, we european can in some…

I think people often forget the other side of the coin.

These companies "cross-pollenate" American morality across the world because they are American companies. Based in America. On American soil. Responsible to America's laws. To ask that these companies not spread American morality (or French morality if they were based in France, or German etc.) is to ask that they not be made to operate under the laws of the country that they're based in. That they hold some status above countries. And one could argue that that is even more dangerous than the situation we have now.

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#46

Post by throwanem »

king_magic wrote: post #43
throwanem wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FSF has a lot of problems, too, like an unresolved contradiction in its rhetoric between claimed populism ("everyone can be free!") and evident elitism ("but if you don't choose to act in exactly the way we promote, to hell with you!") I thought hard about joining, but I'm not comfortable with endorsing such a contradictory and self-defeating stance. I don't see why you should be embarrassed to use Facebook et cetera…

I agree with you, and I think it's a shame people are downvoting you.

I appreciate that, and I don't mind paying a few points of karma for a chance to start a conversation worth having. Perhaps that will happen here.

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#47

Post by UweSchmidt »

shiftpgdn wrote: post #2

If you don't like Facebook's actions then don't use it. Having open speech on Facebook's platform is not an inalienable right. I don't agree with Facebook's privacy policies and thus have deleted my account and use other platforms. This isn't difficult. This article is tantamount to saying "Woe is me, NYT won't publish my op-ed." and expecting anyone to take you seriously.

Disagree.

Fundamental rights and values must/should be upheld by everyone, and if something like Facebook emerges to be a major public forum the relevant rules should apply.

I've deleted my FB account too, but whatever happens on there still affects society and thus everyone.

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#48

Post by sp332 »

austinheap wrote: post #38
jimmytidey wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree with the above. The idea that society should accept that it has no control over the design of a major artery of communication is not sensible. With print media, TV, phone and post, all developed countries have special regulations that ensure these (often privately run) services align with values of democracy (with varying effectiveness). I think the ideal solution would be to compel Facebook to mak…

You can download an archive of your Facebook data already. What "real APIs" would you like the government to "compel" this private corporation to add?

You can't download most of the data facebook collects about you. This guy tried, and it was a legal battle. http://www.wired.co.uk/article/privacy-versus-facebook

"The concept of access [to your data] was just alien to them. In the US consent is just a privacy policy and a tick-box approach." "They break democratically decided laws in the EU and get away with it. Instead of putting money into compliance, they expect NGOs and authorities to do that work for them."

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#49

Post by sp332 »

electic wrote: post #4
sp332 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is a given. When Facebook is many people's main communications platform and source of news, censoring Facebook is, effectively, censoring communication and news. Since they have such power to affect our societies, they should have some obligations.

Disagree. It is the main platform because those folks agree with the terms of use and privacy policy. As suggested, you can use something else that lines up with what you believe and frankly, if a lot more people do that, there will be another viable rival to Facebook. Vote with your clicks.

There are consumer protection laws that prevent companies from abusing their customers even through "agreements". http://fortune.com/2016/03/02/facebook-germany-antitrust/

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#50

Post by mgleason_3 »

firasd wrote: post #7

It's true that Facebook (and Twitter, Youtube, etc.) are expressing the point of view of the platform creators as to 'acceptable content' and it's worth pointing out. On the other hand, if I made a product that hosted user generated content I would probably have pretty similar guidelines to them. e.g. Yes the "nipple double standards" can be criticized but given current cultural norms, when this limit doesn't exist,…

But, thats exactly the point. Americans are so bought into the idea that "explicit" images are bad that they can't see another viewpoint. Its become "natural". And, as the author pointed out, Americans are so blind to it that you don't even see the problem with censoring nipples but not beheadings.

You literally cant see that noone should be injured by seeing a womans breast, but seeing a beheaded body could.

Its interesting to see this story come out so soon after the LA times story about libel and the fight against court ordered take-down of posts critical of companies (think Yelp, etc.).

Maybe the point is that censorship shouldn't be allowed?

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