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Standing Rock Sioux Tribe v. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers

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Re: Standing Rock Sioux Tribe v. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers

#11

Post by zrail »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #10
naterr wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This pipeline removes 7 unit trains a day from the rails through Minnesota to Illinois, the bakken makes about a million+/- bbls a day, and will for quite some time.

The solution seems to be to drive the price of oil up then, no?

Higher oil prices are good for the Bakken. It's not economically feasible to get at that oil at lower prices, which is one possible reason for the recent over production from the Middle East. Drive the price down low enough and the companies working in the Bakken fold, send their workers home, and it takes a long time to build back up.

Re: Standing Rock Sioux Tribe v. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers

#12

Post by mercurial »

jnordwick wrote: post #7

Tl;Dr Therefore, construction of the pipeline on Army Corps land bordering or under Lake Oahe will not go forward at this time. I hope this is the start of mineral and property rights for the land. We have people living and dying because they cannot use their land productively. This is socialism people. It kills people. As a Sioux native, let us use out land white men do, collateral on loans, to build business, but y…

What is "socialism"?

Re: Standing Rock Sioux Tribe v. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers

#13

Post by Waterluvian »

jnordwick wrote: post #7

Tl;Dr Therefore, construction of the pipeline on Army Corps land bordering or under Lake Oahe will not go forward at this time. I hope this is the start of mineral and property rights for the land. We have people living and dying because they cannot use their land productively. This is socialism people. It kills people. As a Sioux native, let us use out land white men do, collateral on loans, to build business, but y…

Can you explain what you mean by this being socialism? It doesn't appear to be the socialism I'm familiar with here in Canada.

Re: Standing Rock Sioux Tribe v. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers

#14

Post by ZoF »

jnordwick wrote: post #7

Tl;Dr Therefore, construction of the pipeline on Army Corps land bordering or under Lake Oahe will not go forward at this time. I hope this is the start of mineral and property rights for the land. We have people living and dying because they cannot use their land productively. This is socialism people. It kills people. As a Sioux native, let us use out land white men do, collateral on loans, to build business, but y…

Curious how this is socialism and why it's the 'white man' doing this; there's more than one race in our army and government is there not?

Re: Standing Rock Sioux Tribe v. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers

#15

Post by koverstreet »

zrail wrote: post #11
toomuchtodo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution seems to be to drive the price of oil up then, no?

Higher oil prices are good for the Bakken. It's not economically feasible to get at that oil at lower prices, which is one possible reason for the recent over production from the Middle East. Drive the price down low enough and the companies working in the Bakken fold, send their workers home, and it takes a long time to build back up.

But higher oil prices do drive down the use of oil in general.

Re: Standing Rock Sioux Tribe v. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers

#17

Post by zrail »

koverstreet wrote: post #15
zrail wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Higher oil prices are good for the Bakken. It's not economically feasible to get at that oil at lower prices, which is one possible reason for the recent over production from the Middle East. Drive the price down low enough and the companies working in the Bakken fold, send their workers home, and it takes a long time to build back up.

But higher oil prices do drive down the use of oil in general.

Oil has highly inelastic demand in the short term. People need to drive to work. Goods need to be transported either by train, ship, or truck. Planes are still jam packed with people.

In the long term high oil prices will modify demand because people will start buying more efficient vehicles. You can see this happening in the decade starting in 2001 because prices spiked and stayed above $3/gal for the entire decade and fuel efficiency rose to match it.

Re: Standing Rock Sioux Tribe v. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers

#18

Post by e12e »

Some more coverage, that people might find relevant:

Democracy Now! was on-site reporting on the use of pepper spray and attack dogs:

"FULL Exclusive Report: Dakota Access Pipeline Co. Attacks Native Americans with Dogs & Pepper Spray" http://www.democracynow.org/2016/9/6/full_exclusive_report_d...

And was rewarded with an arrest warrant for their reporter: "North Dakota issues arrest warrant for Democracy Now’s Amy Goodman" https://usuncut.com/news/amy-goodman-charged/

Comment on ruling (linked in this hn story), from the activist side: "Erased By False Victory: Obama Hasn’t Stopped DAPL": https://transformativespaces.org/2016/09/10/erased-by-false-...

Re: Standing Rock Sioux Tribe v. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers

#19

Post by e12e »

zrail wrote: post #17
koverstreet wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But higher oil prices do drive down the use of oil in general.

Oil has highly inelastic demand in the short term. People need to drive to work. Goods need to be transported either by train, ship, or truck. Planes are still jam packed with people. In the long term high oil prices will modify demand because people will start buying more efficient vehicles. You can see this happening in the decade starting in 2001 because prices spiked and stayed above $3/gal for the entire decade…

Not to forget one of the most "insidious" uses/dependencies of oil: food production in general and agriculture in particular. No oil, means, as far as I know, without radical change, less (as in not enough) and (much) more expensive food. That's even before one considers transport etc.

Re: Standing Rock Sioux Tribe v. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers

#20

Post by specialist »

ZoF wrote: post #14
jnordwick wrote: post #7

Tl;Dr Therefore, construction of the pipeline on Army Corps land bordering or under Lake Oahe will not go forward at this time. I hope this is the start of mineral and property rights for the land. We have people living and dying because they cannot use their land productively. This is socialism people. It kills people. As a Sioux native, let us use out land white men do, collateral on loans, to build business, but y…

Curious how this is socialism and why it's the 'white man' doing this; there's more than one race in our army and government is there not?

It's probably like how the Amish refer to outsiders as English. It's not literal. It's probably their short-hand for all non-Sioux (non-native) people.

So don't take it personally, or pendant about it.

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