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Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

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Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#471

Post by MollyR »

cynoclast wrote: post #209
20years wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My answers as a female. 1.) Not completely. This profession isn't appealing to a lot of women for many reasons outside of it being prominently male dominated. 2.) No 3.) In my early career I was always the only female on smaller male dominated teams. New male devs that came in initially automatically assumed I was administration. It only took a few days for them to realize what I did and all had total respect after.…

>I personally think the heavy PR push towards women in code over the last couple of years It's not been 'the last few years' It's been about 30, now. I can remember them pushing when I was in elementary school. Also, it's a misnomer to call it '[gender] dominated'. Tech is largely female rejected . Just as most men reject teaching, nursing, or the social sciences. Those aren't female dominated either, but male reject…

I studied computer science and biology, and yea I agree with this statement. My cs classes were full of guys, my biology classes were full of girls. I remember when a bunch of biology friends found out I was also studying computer science. The comments ranged from "Why, you aren't autistic ?", "Good for you, I can't even imagine how boring it is", and "Yea makes sense, Asians are good at math".

It seemed pretty clear most people considered compsci pretty low on the social status hierarchy.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#472

Post by MollyR »

jean_engineer wrote: post #449
damagednoob wrote: post #65

Are they cherry-picking the answers? I would be interested in Jean's answer to the first question.

Hello, I'm Jean. I didn't answer the first question because I have tele-commuted for a very long time. My entire interaction with co-workers is over email, github, slack, hangouts, etc.

I'm thinking about having a child, and possibly telecommuting. Did you run into any issues that might have been related to gender ?

I'm pretty sure I'm not planning to tell them I'm pregnant if I can avoid it.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#473

Post by MollyR »

crapolasplatter wrote: post #84
crapolasplatter wrote: post #54

“Ask a Female Engineer” Why leave other important engineering characteristics out? Are you fat,skinny,tall,short,ugly,pretty , white,or black? I really don't see the importance of sex in relations to engineering. Nor understand the desire to get more fat,skinny,tall,short,ugly,pretty , white, black , male or females involved in engineering.

For those that are down voting, care to expand on why? Or perhaps explain why the following characteristics are irrelevant or less important when it comes to engineering: fat,skinny,tall,short,ugly,pretty , white,or black?

Some research shows for women, the prettier you are the easier it is to get ahead maybe the halo effect ? For men there is research that shows the taller you are, the more money you get.

The stuff you mentioned should probably be a separate conversion, but I do think there is probably overlap with the gender issue.

Its not about just technical ability, but social and economic power through jobs.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#474

Post by namaemuta »

Mz wrote: post #468
namaemuta wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read your post when it was around here in HN and a few more. I think you are part of - what I think is a minority - of women that don't agree with everything that carries the flag of feminism and actually discern if a particular thing is good or bad for the sake of women. Focus on the topic, I don't know if that grey area can be solved any time. Whereas there are feelings there will be people incapable of control t…

It will never be fully solved, but cultural norms can change in a way that makes it a lot easier than it is currently. I believe that right now, it is so normal for men and women to only really talk if they are looking for a hookup that it creates a highly charged atmosphere anytime that rule is broken. I have read articles about the problems created when men from countries where the veil is normal move to countries…

There's nothing I can argue about what you have said. I would love to see that change, I don't have any special desire of making women uncomfortable at their workplace and even less to feel myself uncomfortable around them. I would gladly put on practise any new idea on that purpose but many of the things I've seen lately don't look like they have that purpose or go beyond that, making us men to feel "threatened" (maybe that's no the right word but I think you get the idea).

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#475

Post by MollyR »

biafra wrote: post #446
MollyR wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, my HR department has it in our contract. My last place had it so no couples were allowed in the same department.

Interesting. - What happens if people become couples that are in the same department? - Is one of them send to a differrent department? - Is one of them fired? - Is it ignored until it becomes a problem? - Do they have to announce it? If so at which point? The first date? The first kiss? When they have sex? - What if they keep it a secret? So many questions! I am certain this would be illegal or void in Germany.

Sorry don't have any answers, but I will say I met my husband at my last job, but I moved on to a new job to avoid the hr issues as he was the Team Lead.

It's actually why I find some of the advice from the other female engineers so troubling. Our relationship attraction first started when he took me for coffee break, to see how I was doing after my 6 month probationary period ended.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#476

Post by MollyR »

grace_engineer wrote: post #89
exolymph wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this. It's weird to single out women and it's equally weird to not include women. The whole point of these discussions and elaborate rigmaroles is to treat people the same regardless of gender.

Hello, I am Grace. Please include women in the workplace. Talk to us. Don't omit us. If you aren't sure if it's HR appropriate to talk to women at your workplace please check with your HR team. I hope your HR team will encourage you to talk to women and ask what they like or dislike about their day-to-day. If they mention concerns or problems they’re having, I hope your HR team will encourage you to ask if there’s an…

I agree, HR, or talking to a lawyer about the cultural norms and laws is super important. I've seen a few guys with good intentions to help our struggle, but just not socially savvy get in trouble, and just become super bitter against women.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#477

Post by Mz »

namaemuta wrote: post #474
Mz wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will never be fully solved, but cultural norms can change in a way that makes it a lot easier than it is currently. I believe that right now, it is so normal for men and women to only really talk if they are looking for a hookup that it creates a highly charged atmosphere anytime that rule is broken. I have read articles about the problems created when men from countries where the veil is normal move to countries…

There's nothing I can argue about what you have said. I would love to see that change, I don't have any special desire of making women uncomfortable at their workplace and even less to feel myself uncomfortable around them. I would gladly put on practise any new idea on that purpose but many of the things I've seen lately don't look like they have that purpose or go beyond that, making us men to feel "threatened" (ma…

I get that this is something people find threatening and that a lot of what gets written is real blamey and accusatory. I get that men get framed as the bad guy.

I have literally spent my entire life working out another answer. I try to blog about that. I don't get much attention.

I think I have something unique to offer in that regard. I would sincerely appreciate it if I got more comments and I got promoted more by people in some way. Currently, it is mostly me posting my own writing and people largely ignore it.

If you want to see more constructive discussion and the spreading of the idea that, yes, things need to change without the subtext of because men are all rapey bastards and assholes, please consider leaving comments on my blog and sharing links to things you agree with on it.

Here is what I happened to have just finished writing when I saw your comment here, which I think I probably won't bother to post to HN because I am so frustrated with being ignored and with other aspects of doing that:

http://micheleincalifornia.blogspot.com/2016/09/change.html

Have a great day.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#478

Post by wpietri »

PavlovsCat wrote: post #461
wpietri wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> emphatic male absolutely does know more about what "women are going through" than Did you mean a different word here? Because as far as I've seen, the emphatic males are the biggest problem in this context. > You know nothing about what others think about, what they know or don't know. Do you recognize the multiple ironies in this statement? Yes, I'm generalizing. That is a necessity in discussions about broad char…

> For example, when walking at night in my urban neighborhood, I go well out of my way to give women a lot of space, to not walk too close to them for too long. I'll slow down, pass them, cross the street, get on a different train car, or take an alternate route altogether. Why? I do the same on long stretches of walk at night etc., but generally? Whenever I pass a woman in broad daylight I have to get away to make s…

> It's not that I don't know all you say, it's that I know more. Allow for that possibility.

I do, but I don't believe it to be the case here. Random anonymous dudes full of hypocrisy and drama but low on facts don't score well on my credible witness scale, especially when the topic is the experience of women.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#479

Post by rhapsodic »

ntaenta wrote: post #460
pingpongchef wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't describe what's happening. What is happening is that people look at the race/gender/etc. makeup of companies and compare to an ideal makeup. When the makeup doesn't match the ideal, they infer that some groups are underrepresented. There doesn't appear to be anyone asking, "how does ideal representation compare to what's realistically possible?"

Why is equal representation of races and genders not realistically possible?

>Why is equal representation of races and genders not realistically possible?

Because, realistically, to achieve equal representation, people would have to forced into careers they are not interested in.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#480

Post by [deleted] »

houselouse wrote: post #19

> Invite women you work with for coffee No chance of this being misinterpreted. Invite women you work with for coffee and ask what they like or dislike about their day-to-day. If they mention concerns or problems they’re having, ask if there’s any way you could help make it better.

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