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Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

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Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#261

Post by chiphammertime »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #194
rndgermandude wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's often a shitty environment for men, too. Now the question is: Is it really that much more shitty for women, are there other factors at play for them leaving (or not joining in the first place), or a combination of both. I'd say the latter: The environment is a bit shittier on average for a women and therefore should be improve to be equally shitty for all, but there are other factors at play here too.

There's also a distinction to be made between "things are shitty for everyone, and men tend to handle it better" and "things are shitty for women in particular because of anti-female sexism". Like, construction work is also a shitty environment that's shittier for women. There's significant danger and hard physical activity, and for men are generally better able to handle that. The amount of women in construction may…

female construction worker and FOSS hobbyist here. I've been to tech conferences and do residential construction for a living. I'm a member of the local VFD. I'm familiar with predominantly male environments. I wish there were more women doing the things I love to do, but oh well.

Predominantly male environments are much more verbally and physically confrontational than mixed ones, in my experience. So my presence is really awkward. No one feels comfortable ripping on the new guy if the new guy is a new girl who's a bit shy. Sometimes the awkwardness dissipates, other times it doesn't. If it doesn't, I leave. So I suppose that this is one reason why predominantly male environments tend to stay that way.

It's always felt like more of a group dynamics thing than pointed sexism when I've experienced it.

One more thing: just because a job is physical doesn't mean that men are better at it. This attitude is extremely annoying to me as it directly affects my day-to-day life. I train 10-15 hours a week, and I'm stronger than the out-of-shape old guys. This doesn't matter. They know so many tricks to make the work go faster. Work smarter, you know?

I'm not sure if there's any data on female construction workers and danger/workplace accidents, but I'm actually confused by your assertion that men are better able to handle danger. Like, I don't understand what that even means.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#262

Post by bigtunacan »

bonoboTP wrote: post #46
rimantas wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, let's play "roles reversed" game. Or maybe not. It is sad however, that you cannot even ask another human being for a cup of coffee.

"cup of coffee" is code for date. Plausible deniability and all. There are other ways to talk that are less ambiguous.

As a straight male I've asked plenty of people, both male and female to grab a cup of coffee. So far no one seems to have been confused. They all understood it was just getting coffee and chatting.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#263

Post by tomjakubowski »

ythl wrote: post #135
fasdf wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think that kindergarten teachers being all women is a big problem. If I have a son someday, I would want him to have some good male teachers that he can look up to from a young age. I had one in 5th grade and it really helped me.

Actually, it's becoming a pretty big problem not just for kindergartens, but for K-12 teachers in general. K-12 is completely dominated by women, while colleges and universities are split between STEM (male professors) and liberal arts (female)

Do you have a source for the gender split among STEM and liberal arts professors?

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#264

Post by Broken_Hippo »

notyourwork wrote: post #223
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this could be misinterpreted as a setup for a date. I'd think that if some dude asked me and we hadn't had much small talk at the office. At the same time, it isn't horrible advice. It really all depends on the situation and your current 'comfort level' with the person. I mean, if you've been working together some time and have chatted at the office, might not be an issue. It might help to mention that you wa…

I think it also depends on where you work. In my company it is very common to get coffee. Team's and groups regularly take coffee breaks or meet for coffee to touch base. I do agree generally though it could be misconstrued.

Most definitely. It being common makes it much less likely to be misinterpreted, for sure.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#265

Post by NTDF9 »

vacri wrote: post #170
NTDF9 wrote: post #14

Not trying to be sarcastic but how would the world respond if someone starts, "Ask a male engineer"?

If it were a genuine attempt to maturely discuss gender issues in the workplace from a male point of view, the world would probably be okay with it. If it were a knee-jerk "what about the menz?" fuck-you, then it'd be shouted down. There are lots of books and magazines out there that maturely examine men's experiences from a man's point of view, and no-one is shrilly protesting them.

>> If it were a genuine attempt to maturely discuss gender issues in the workplace from a male point of view, the world would probably be okay with it.

This is genuine. Thanks!

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#266

Post by pyre »

c0g wrote: post #231
rcba wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to clarify what you mean. Do you believe that the tech sector is actually diverse and there are no underrepresented groups, or are you saying you don't think the lack of diversity is harmful?

From the second paragraph it seems like it's neither of your two options.

The second paragraph doesn't necessarily connect to the first one. It's possible to believe there are no good solutions, while still seeing it as a problem.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#267

Post by gentleteblor »

exstudent2 wrote: post #227
gentleteblor wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. HN never seems more like Reddit than when we're discussing diversity (gender, race, economic). All the bad habits (mansplaining, straw man arguments etc.) you find elsewhere seem to suddenly rise to the surface. Distressing indeed.

If you want people to take your opinions on gender issues seriously, it's probably best not to use sexist terms like "mansplaining". Edit (for some reason, locked from commenting further): > It describes a specific behavior almost entirely practiced by men Um no it doesn't. Possibly the word your looking for is condescending (that's usually what people mean when they say "mansplaining"). I don't see that here though.…

It's a bummer you couldn't comment further, this thread is going to look a little out of order.

But let's get real here.

This isn't about male victimization. This is about the inability of a privileged class to see it's own privilege. Read this whole thread and what you see are many men who don't recognize their own privilege, men who are blind to individual and structural biases. And because they don't see it they wonder what all the fuss is? They wonder why we keep bugging them with "initiatives" and blog posts.

You get this same behavior with race, gender, money, class etc. The excuses are also the same: "it's not about gender, it's just people being condescending to each other sometimes", "it's not about race, it's just people being mean to each other sometimes". It's an easy trick, it's absolution.

But the inequalities persist. The biases persist. They are unconscious and they are subtle. They are structural. They are written into laws, into company policy, into city ordinances, and work place culture.

We shouldn't be afraid to name these behaviors. We shouldn't get tired of fighting them. And I say we, because I (yes, i'm one of you men) am also guilty.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#268

Post by __s »

mrtron wrote: post #255
daxorid wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elephant in the room. Nobody seems to want to discuss the very real chilling effect of spousal mate-guarding behavior on workplace camaraderie. Thank you sir.

Didn't know this was a thing. Can you explain why it would be a problem?

Shun women because if I casually mention saying something about having talked to a non male while my wife wasn't around the wife'll beat me. If I don't say anything about talking to non males then I'm hiding things, which never goes well if wife ever meets a non male coworker who doesn't describe me as super shy

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#269

Post by kaitai »

munchbunny wrote: post #246
microcolonel wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the horrible outcome is that she mentioned her boyfriend a few times. You're missing the point. The horrible outcome is that she will forever hold the irrational concern that you're hitting on her. It will colour everything you say or do.

I think he/she got the point, but just doesn't see it as a big deal. I don't either, though I can understand the hesitation. The parent poster's point is that you really can't let that bother you, and that in situations like these a thicker skin for awkwardness pared with straightforward but polite communication will serve you better in the long run.

Exactly.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#270

Post by Broken_Hippo »

rhaps0dy wrote: post #222
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this could be misinterpreted as a setup for a date. I'd think that if some dude asked me and we hadn't had much small talk at the office. At the same time, it isn't horrible advice. It really all depends on the situation and your current 'comfort level' with the person. I mean, if you've been working together some time and have chatted at the office, might not be an issue. It might help to mention that you wa…

Does it work to outright say "It's not a date, I just want to talk to you"? Or does it have the opposite effect and make the askee more wary that the asker may, in fact, take it as a date?

I can't answer so much on generalities on this one, as it probably depends on the the person. I've personally had people say this in different circumstances (not always work), and sometimes it is believable and sometimes not. Thing is that I didn't necessarily think along those lines until they brought it up.

I'd say if she seems to be really uneasy (and you might not tell, most women will try to just be polite), you can try adding it in. Probably unnecessary if you've put the why's of it upfront, though. If she says no, you can always add a little more about what you wanted to talk about, and tell them the offer is open if she'd like. Well, in your own words, and using simlar language as you would with any other coworker and stuff.

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