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Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

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Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#231

Post by c0g »

rcba wrote: post #214
cynoclast wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've not been convinced that 'the gender diversity problem' is a problem. The only 'solution' I see is to force women who don't want to work in tech to work in tech, but since I believe in female agency - and that women have chosen something other than tech to do with their lives - that too would be wrong.

I'd like to clarify what you mean. Do you believe that the tech sector is actually diverse and there are no underrepresented groups, or are you saying you don't think the lack of diversity is harmful?

From the second paragraph it seems like it's neither of your two options.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#232

Post by [deleted] »

rcba wrote: post #214
cynoclast wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've not been convinced that 'the gender diversity problem' is a problem. The only 'solution' I see is to force women who don't want to work in tech to work in tech, but since I believe in female agency - and that women have chosen something other than tech to do with their lives - that too would be wrong.

I'd like to clarify what you mean. Do you believe that the tech sector is actually diverse and there are no underrepresented groups, or are you saying you don't think the lack of diversity is harmful?

[deleted]

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#233

Post by Mz »

jasoncchild wrote: post #186

Cue defensive comments from male readers...

Thank you for noticing and commenting.

But, it would be more helpful to women here if more men engaged us in a meaningful manner. Post our articles. Say non vacuous things about us or this problem space. Upvote us. Talk with us.

Commenting on how some men mishandle it puts more energy into the wrong things. If you want to see real change, give that energy instead to constructive actions that involve women.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#234

Post by katbyte »

wingless wrote: post #182
wpietri wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you would talk with some actual women in tech, you would learn that many women choose not to become software engineers (and choose to leave at 2x the rate of men) because it is often a shitty environment for them. You would also learn that plenty of people are working on making a more inclusive industry for reasons that have nothing to do with pushing down their own wages. I'm one of them.

I talk to plenty of actual women in tech. They rarely complain about anything that affects women more than men. And if they do, it usually comes from a die-hard feminist SV hedge fund kid who blows everything out of proportion because of political reasons. So it's equally as shitty for men. Women not choosing to become software engineers or quitting more than men do indicates nothing since there are tons of different…

> Mainly, most women have an easier way out by getting married so they don't have to do any hard work, physically or mentally. How do you think they survive otherwise?

That is a pretty sexist and insulting statement.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#235

Post by keyboardhitter »

Chinjut wrote: post #189
jasoncchild wrote: post #186

Cue defensive comments from male readers...

Boy oh boy, so many. Any time a woman dares to lament how maybe her experiences in tech are colored by that minority status, Hacker News pounces en masse with little self-awareness. Not everyone on HN, of course. But, overall, threads like this are... distressing to read.

Yes... I came into this thread wanting to comment about how I relate strongly to Jules, but then was disheartened at the many comments diminishing these experiences. Oh well. the "DGAF" attitude mentioned at the bottom of the article works wonders for worrying about things like HN ;)

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#236

Post by rcba »

alaithea wrote: post #10
rcba wrote: post #6

How active should men be in actually helping to solve the gender diversity problem vs sitting on the sidelines and sharing the work of women who are solving the problem? I've been working on an initiative to encourage more of my male peers to do more to make their organisations more diverse and was recently criticised by a female software engineer who told me that I shouldn't "come into a feminist space" where "women…

I think that woman's view is in the minority. If that particular community is not open to male allies, but you want to help, please keep looking and find one of the many communities that is!

Thanks alaithea, not one to give up easily so I'll keep listening, learning and doing my best to help.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#237

Post by matt_wulfeck »

ben_jones wrote: post #45
houselouse wrote: post #19

> Invite women you work with for coffee No chance of this being misinterpreted. Invite women you work with for coffee and ask what they like or dislike about their day-to-day. If they mention concerns or problems they’re having, ask if there’s any way you could help make it better.

Does phrasing exist though to keep if professional? Honest question. My best attempt would probably be: "Hey would you like to go out for coffee professionally?"

I have a feeling that would be ruined by a few men who who had more than professional intentions.

Besides, nearly this entire conversation is because of a few people. It only takes a single creepy guy in a group of 100 to ruin everybody's experience.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#238

Post by RonanTheGrey »

208Gi wrote: post #21
rcba wrote: post #6

How active should men be in actually helping to solve the gender diversity problem vs sitting on the sidelines and sharing the work of women who are solving the problem? I've been working on an initiative to encourage more of my male peers to do more to make their organisations more diverse and was recently criticised by a female software engineer who told me that I shouldn't "come into a feminist space" where "women…

I'm a male that worked with a feminist group about a decade ago. What I learned is that there are spaces/initiatives where men are welcome and, ones where they are not. As in any human relationship - respect of boundaries is key. Like alaithea said, if you're not welcome in one space - you may be in another. You could also start your own initiative but, remember that top down decision making in the name of helping a…

Imagine men saying to women "you are not welcome here" in any context except a bathroom and you begin to see the problem.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#239

Post by [deleted] »

wrsh07 wrote: post #43
houselouse wrote: post #19

> Invite women you work with for coffee No chance of this being misinterpreted. Invite women you work with for coffee and ask what they like or dislike about their day-to-day. If they mention concerns or problems they’re having, ask if there’s any way you could help make it better.

Ask everyone you work with for coffee. Please don't omit the women. I've mentored new hires, and in that context it's easy to say, "hey can we get tea and talk about how the first few weeks have been?"

[deleted]

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#240

Post by wehadfun »

Jtsummers wrote: post #95
grahamburger wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if it's not misinterpreted by her, it could be misinterpreted by friends / colleagues / SO's if either of you are married or in a serious relationship. Inter-gender relationships are hard :( I'm reminded of this xkcd[0], 'Hooray! we've solved the problem of drama!' [0] https://xkcd.com/592/ EDIT: I should add a bit of context. I am self employed as a contractor, but my 'boss' at my biggest client - the one that…

I agree that things can be misinterpreted, but that's not a reason to avoid relationships with people. It's a reason to keep things clearly communicated. And if people choose to gossip and act like high schoolers, let them. Maybe call them out on it, depending on the nature of your professional/personal relationship this can be easier said than done. But, maybe this is just me, I'm not going to forfeit my good relati…

Are you single? You sound single.
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