Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer” • Hacker News Board

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#131

Post by fasdf » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 8:48 PM UTC

user5994461 wrote: post #97

The solution to all gender problems: Actively ignore all topics and articles with "woman" or "female" in the title. People are who they are and go where they want. Tech is no exception. When one walks into a car garage, one doesn't make a fuss about mechanics being all men. When one walks into a kindergarden, one doesn't make a fuss about teachers being all women.

I do think that kindergarten teachers being all women is a big problem. If I have a son someday, I would want him to have some good male teachers that he can look up to from a young age. I had one in 5th grade and it really helped me.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#132

Post by Mz » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 8:50 PM UTC

rimantas wrote: post #118

bonoboTP wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"cup of coffee" is code for date. Plausible deniability and all. There are other ways to talk that are less ambiguous.

Ok, then what's the code for cup of coffee?

"Cup of coffee" -- it just depends on the context and how it is asked.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#133

Post by cbcowans » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 8:51 PM UTC

danso wrote: post #73

I would like to know some origin stories, e.g. "Where were you before? How did you get into engineering?" I mean, the answers to these are interesting regardless of occupation or identity.

Thanks for posting! We've added them to our list of questions.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#134

Post by Mz » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 8:57 PM UTC

tomc1985 wrote: post #38

The more attention you draw on diversity, the less diversity you receive. Diversity is supposed to be impartial and tolerant, yet it seems the prescribed approach is to carve out separate "spaces" for different feelings and situations. How is this building bridges in the so-called "gender divide"? True diversity is complete and utter impartiality. Why are we focusing on all these useless, pretty, inspirational soluti…

The more attention you draw on diversity, the less diversity you receive.

Yeah, they are doing it badly. But no one seems to have an actual good solution. You know the saying: Anything worth doing is worth doing badly.

You gotta start somewhere.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#135

Post by ythl » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 8:58 PM UTC

fasdf wrote: post #131

user5994461 wrote: post #97

The solution to all gender problems: Actively ignore all topics and articles with "woman" or "female" in the title. People are who they are and go where they want. Tech is no exception. When one walks into a car garage, one doesn't make a fuss about mechanics being all men. When one walks into a kindergarden, one doesn't make a fuss about teachers being all women.

I do think that kindergarten teachers being all women is a big problem. If I have a son someday, I would want him to have some good male teachers that he can look up to from a young age. I had one in 5th grade and it really helped me.

Actually, it's becoming a pretty big problem not just for kindergartens, but for K-12 teachers in general. K-12 is completely dominated by women, while colleges and universities are split between STEM (male professors) and liberal arts (female)

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#136

Post by gjolund » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 8:59 PM UTC

Mz wrote: post #129

gjolund wrote: post #103

Here's my question: "Why do you feel the need to constantly bring up your gender?"

"Because it is clear to me that it has caused problems in male dominated environments. I find it works better to take the bull by the horns and deal with that head on than to try to pretend I am not being treated differently when I am, in fact, being treated differently. Thank you for asking." (I am a woman, but not an engineer, fwiw.)

I want to be treated the same as everyone else.

Unless I am feeling uncomfortable, and then I want to be treated differently.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#137

Post by kaitai » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 9:00 PM UTC

fasdf wrote: post #130

houselouse wrote: post #19

> Invite women you work with for coffee No chance of this being misinterpreted. Invite women you work with for coffee and ask what they like or dislike about their day-to-day. If they mention concerns or problems they’re having, ask if there’s any way you could help make it better.

This did happen to me once. I asked someone to a general get-to-know-you coffee and she spent the next two years mentioning her boyfriend to me and even mentioning a couple of times that she liked me as a friend but didn't want to date me. I thought it best not to mention that my interest in dating her was equally low.

I think it's totally ok to say, "Sorry if it didn't come across that way, but I'm really just interested in talking professionally." Many women have had previous bad experiences and react with that in mind. It's ok to clarify.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#138

Post by Mz » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 9:01 PM UTC

gjolund wrote: post #136

Mz wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Because it is clear to me that it has caused problems in male dominated environments. I find it works better to take the bull by the horns and deal with that head on than to try to pretend I am not being treated differently when I am, in fact, being treated differently. Thank you for asking." (I am a woman, but not an engineer, fwiw.)

I want to be treated the same as everyone else. Unless I am feeling uncomfortable, and then I want to be treated differently.

I have covered this before:

http://micheleincalifornia.blogspot.com/2014/01/oh-my-god-it...

So I assume you don't actually know me. Because, no, that isn't my position.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#139

Post by atom-morgan » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 9:02 PM UTC

ben_jones wrote: post #45

houselouse wrote: post #19

> Invite women you work with for coffee No chance of this being misinterpreted. Invite women you work with for coffee and ask what they like or dislike about their day-to-day. If they mention concerns or problems they’re having, ask if there’s any way you could help make it better.

Does phrasing exist though to keep if professional? Honest question. My best attempt would probably be: "Hey would you like to go out for coffee professionally?"

Instantly awkward.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#140

Post by wpietri » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 9:07 PM UTC

wingless wrote: post #81

rcba wrote: post #6

How active should men be in actually helping to solve the gender diversity problem vs sitting on the sidelines and sharing the work of women who are solving the problem? I've been working on an initiative to encourage more of my male peers to do more to make their organisations more diverse and was recently criticised by a female software engineer who told me that I shouldn't "come into a feminist space" where "women…

The lack of gender diversity in tech is NOT a problem. Women choose not to become software engineers for the same reason they avoid all STEM fields. This recent push to make everyone a software engineer is such an obvious attempt by companies to push down wages. You will be wasting your spare time trying to reduce your salary.

If you would talk with some actual women in tech, you would learn that many women choose not to become software engineers (and choose to leave at 2x the rate of men) because it is often a shitty environment for them.

You would also learn that plenty of people are working on making a more inclusive industry for reasons that have nothing to do with pushing down their own wages. I'm one of them.