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The privacy wars are about to get a whole lot worse

locusmag.com

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Re: The privacy wars are about to get a whole lot worse

#61

Post by placeybordeaux »

SEJeff wrote: post #56
Frondo wrote: post #8

I used to feel strongly about not trading my privacy away for some convenience. For a long time I took a luddite pride in not being on various services, having a dumb phone, keeping it turned off, etc. Over time, though, I've found myself having a change of heart. What started as little inconveniences have turned into big ones, as I'm more and more out of touch with my peers, contemporaries, and family. I don't like…

This is a somewhat spooky, but eerily relevant talk from the CEO of In-Q-Tell, the venture capital arm of the CIA he gave at a security conference not long ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxLJExWk9GE He mentions that we are past the point of being a luddite much mattering. Much of your activity can be inferred through activity of your friends, family, and those around you.

This is a great talk, the speaker details some of the ways he tries to protect his own privacy and how useless that can be.

Re: The privacy wars are about to get a whole lot worse

#62

Post by jacquesm »

SEJeff wrote: post #56
Frondo wrote: post #8

I used to feel strongly about not trading my privacy away for some convenience. For a long time I took a luddite pride in not being on various services, having a dumb phone, keeping it turned off, etc. Over time, though, I've found myself having a change of heart. What started as little inconveniences have turned into big ones, as I'm more and more out of touch with my peers, contemporaries, and family. I don't like…

This is a somewhat spooky, but eerily relevant talk from the CEO of In-Q-Tell, the venture capital arm of the CIA he gave at a security conference not long ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxLJExWk9GE He mentions that we are past the point of being a luddite much mattering. Much of your activity can be inferred through activity of your friends, family, and those around you.

Lone wolfs are called that for a reason.

Re: The privacy wars are about to get a whole lot worse

#63

Post by Frondo »

HSO wrote: post #58
Frondo wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're happy with that kind of marginal existence, then that's great. It works for you. I don't want to lose touch with people, because I don't view my contact with people as being part of a "hivemind". I view my time on Earth as one marked by civic and human engagement, where I want to share my ideas, bounce them off other people, strive to improve my community and the world, etc. Stepping away from that to be a…

Touchy much? None of the little tricks or habits I listed above leads to a "marginal existence" or makes you a "hermit". They serve to cut out the middleman, or to minimize my data trail, given that I still want the benefits of technology. Why should Google/Gmail be allowed to analyze my communications with my friends or colleagues, esp. if I'm not even using Gmail? Why should Netflix be allowed to record what I watc…

Hey, again, if living that kind of marginal existence ("I avoid the web as much as possible" ... and "Be offline as much as possible" ... and "If they insist on exposing me to their "smoke" (or, negative externalities), then I cut the contact.") suits you, that's great. I commend you, and I hope you continue to get everything out of life you want.

I'm not satisfied with that kind of inconvenience. These are, ultimately, social issues, not technical ones. For me, the solution must come from society (and consequently, become enshrined in law).

Dodging the big picture privacy issue with "avoiding the web as much as possible" and "cutting the contact" doesn't work for me.

EDIT: Whoa! You made some pretty big edits there! Mark those puppies next time, mister!

Re: The privacy wars are about to get a whole lot worse

#64

Post by wfo »

mathiasben wrote: post #36

from the article - "Notice and consent is an absurd legal fiction." it shouldn't be. "Notice and consent" should instead be a class taught in high schools. The ability to read, understand and NEGIOTIAGE these agreements should be within the mental grasp of everyone.

If you manage to renegotiate your contract/EULA with Apple or Facebook or Google because of your impressive ability to read and understand them, let me know.

In reality, the power these companies have means there is no negotiation. They are gatekeepers to nearly necessary tools to exist in society (especially for the non-tech-savvy) and they can put whatever rules they want on those gates. Your choices are to do whatever they want or walk away.

In fact, I'd posit it's a waste of time for someone who isn't a privacy attorney to read these take-it-or-leave-it-style "contracts" since you HAVE to accept them, and the only things you can argue about or discuss are provisions in the contract which are illegal or unenforceable, and that discussion happens much later in front of a judge.

The ONLY way we can protect ourselves from these abusive contracts (particularly the pervasive and rights-destroying mandatory binding arbitration clauses) is to use legislation to delete them from existence.

Nearly all tech companies try to use noncompetes to keep their employees in a brutal stranglehold and stop them from shopping around to try to earn the market value of their labor. California is where tech goes to flourish and startups abound, because noncompetes are banned there.

We need to ban mandatory binding arbitration altogether (there is no reason it should have ever been legal), and have very strict guidelines about what kinds of privacy/tech contracts are allowed -- with punishments for companies who violate, strict ones.

Re: The privacy wars are about to get a whole lot worse

#65

Post by mgraczyk »

Frondo wrote: post #8

I used to feel strongly about not trading my privacy away for some convenience. For a long time I took a luddite pride in not being on various services, having a dumb phone, keeping it turned off, etc. Over time, though, I've found myself having a change of heart. What started as little inconveniences have turned into big ones, as I'm more and more out of touch with my peers, contemporaries, and family. I don't like…

> It's a basic human right.

What do you mean by that? That phrase always struck me as an argument-ending non-argument. What if I disagree that you have a "right" to privacy in any meaningful way? What if I think that I have a basic human right to control the data you choose to upload to my server?

Re: The privacy wars are about to get a whole lot worse

#66

Post by ACS_Solver »

duncan_bayne wrote: post #55
ACS_Solver wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think this is right. I have very privacy-conscious tech habits, and companies have some data on me, but probably far less than on the typical user of modern services. Some ways I protect myself: 1. Google account - I have one because it's required for Android, but I have never used Gmail, do not search from my Google account or ever log into it from my browser. 2. Facebook or any subsidiaries - never. 3. Gener…

Do you send email to Gmail accounts? Because if so, Google has at least some of your mail anyway.

When I send an unencrypted email, I consider that to be data out of my control, but at least my incoming mail is not getting scanned by anyone.

Re: The privacy wars are about to get a whole lot worse

#67

Post by ACS_Solver »

Sylos wrote: post #47
ACS_Solver wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think this is right. I have very privacy-conscious tech habits, and companies have some data on me, but probably far less than on the typical user of modern services. Some ways I protect myself: 1. Google account - I have one because it's required for Android, but I have never used Gmail, do not search from my Google account or ever log into it from my browser. 2. Facebook or any subsidiaries - never. 3. Gener…

> 1. Google account - I have one because it's required for Android, but I have never used Gmail, do not search from my Google account or ever log into it from my browser. I haven't run stock Android in a while (and instead just CyanogenMod), but I'm pretty sure that it's not actually required, i.e. you can skip account creation during setup and then install alternative app stores like F-Droid, Aptoide or Amazon. If w…

I also prefer Cyanogen, although I like having access to the Google Play store even on that. While that's tied to my Google account, it's an informed choice, I am fine with Google knowing what Play Store apps I have installed, and I use F-Droid at the same time for some other apps.

One of the great things about Cyanogen is maintaining tight control even over Google's apps and how much they track me.

Re: The privacy wars are about to get a whole lot worse

#68

Post by Gorgor »

Sylos wrote: post #47
ACS_Solver wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think this is right. I have very privacy-conscious tech habits, and companies have some data on me, but probably far less than on the typical user of modern services. Some ways I protect myself: 1. Google account - I have one because it's required for Android, but I have never used Gmail, do not search from my Google account or ever log into it from my browser. 2. Facebook or any subsidiaries - never. 3. Gener…

> 1. Google account - I have one because it's required for Android, but I have never used Gmail, do not search from my Google account or ever log into it from my browser. I haven't run stock Android in a while (and instead just CyanogenMod), but I'm pretty sure that it's not actually required, i.e. you can skip account creation during setup and then install alternative app stores like F-Droid, Aptoide or Amazon. If w…

But is it possible to use Google Play Services without a Google Account? For many people, that's synonymous with using Android.

Re: The privacy wars are about to get a whole lot worse

#69

Post by SCHiM »

mgraczyk wrote: post #65
Frondo wrote: post #8

I used to feel strongly about not trading my privacy away for some convenience. For a long time I took a luddite pride in not being on various services, having a dumb phone, keeping it turned off, etc. Over time, though, I've found myself having a change of heart. What started as little inconveniences have turned into big ones, as I'm more and more out of touch with my peers, contemporaries, and family. I don't like…

> It's a basic human right. What do you mean by that? That phrase always struck me as an argument-ending non-argument. What if I disagree that you have a "right" to privacy in any meaningful way? What if I think that I have a basic human right to control the data you choose to upload to my server?

We'll first of all it's turtles all the way down. Like all morality there isn't an absolute answer that tells us what is good or bad in a secular setting.

So the thing that comes closest is the culture and history we've been carrying with us. And that the 'right' to privacy has been a 'right' for a long time (eg. the right to private conversations and mail etc.)

Re: The privacy wars are about to get a whole lot worse

#70

Post by ACS_Solver »

colordrops wrote: post #46
ACS_Solver wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think this is right. I have very privacy-conscious tech habits, and companies have some data on me, but probably far less than on the typical user of modern services. Some ways I protect myself: 1. Google account - I have one because it's required for Android, but I have never used Gmail, do not search from my Google account or ever log into it from my browser. 2. Facebook or any subsidiaries - never. 3. Gener…

Your steps are not even close to enough to mitigate tracking.

Never claimed otherwise, although my steps are enough to expose far less data about myself than the average Internet user. These steps are also completely usable in everyday life without sacrificing much time or convenience.

On the comparatively rare occasions when I need more privacy, I do more. For instance, I tend to use Tor if I'm staying at a hotel that ties the WiFi connection to you personally - I think those connections are as bad as it gets for privacy.

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