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The privacy wars are about to get a whole lot worse

locusmag.com

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Re: The privacy wars are about to get a whole lot worse

#31

Post by jtrip »

sounds wrote: post #22

I'm waiting to see if this gets traction on HN. In case it doesn't, and so I can propose something only to the few who dig to the bottom of the comments: The problem is social. A technological solution will not suffice.

I agree, the problem is social. To be more specific, the problem is that the corporate clout is too thick and the corporate social structure is broken. Running after the money stick, with total disregard for the person at the other end of the leash. Not purposefully evil but stupid and blind.

I think the social structure of the 'proletariat' is fine, though the institutions like the news that support it are being eroded due to changing technology and the corporate clout.

Re: The privacy wars are about to get a whole lot worse

#32

Post by jgaosgxy »

pcunite wrote: post #23

There is coming a point in time where every person must have a mark in order to buy or sell. It will be your access and citizen membership to a new global order. Enjoy your temporary freedom. History has a nasty way of modernizing itself.

Isn't this already happening? I got a tour from one of the techs at a major general store on how they track users "to enhance user experience". It's both impressive and terrifying. Using simple things like tracking the wireless signals on your smartphone they can see exactly when you pass or enter the store, which departments you visit and stay longest, etc. The system is even linked up to a camera at checkout so they have your picture linked to all other details they gathered.

In the country I live it's also very popular for every store to have their own plastic card you gather points on at every purchase (e.g. for discounts or freebies). This is an easy way of matching your purchases with all the other personal information they gather.

Re: The privacy wars are about to get a whole lot worse

#33

Post by TerminalJunkie »

jgaosgxy wrote: post #32
pcunite wrote: post #23

There is coming a point in time where every person must have a mark in order to buy or sell. It will be your access and citizen membership to a new global order. Enjoy your temporary freedom. History has a nasty way of modernizing itself.

Isn't this already happening? I got a tour from one of the techs at a major general store on how they track users "to enhance user experience". It's both impressive and terrifying. Using simple things like tracking the wireless signals on your smartphone they can see exactly when you pass or enter the store, which departments you visit and stay longest, etc. The system is even linked up to a camera at checkout so the…

NY Times had an article in 2013 about this very thing. [1] But the amazing thing was, when users/customers found out that they were being tracked and the level of detail found in the tracking methods, some of them complained. They were quoted as saying "creepy", and "way over the line."

If users knew how much of their entire lives could be pieced together by browser tracking, cookies, and the same techniques that advertisement companies use to target groups of people, I feel that they would say the same thing.

[1] http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/15/business/attention-shopper...

Re: The privacy wars are about to get a whole lot worse

#35

Post by Frondo »

jessaustin wrote: post #29
Frondo wrote: post #8

I used to feel strongly about not trading my privacy away for some convenience. For a long time I took a luddite pride in not being on various services, having a dumb phone, keeping it turned off, etc. Over time, though, I've found myself having a change of heart. What started as little inconveniences have turned into big ones, as I'm more and more out of touch with my peers, contemporaries, and family. I don't like…

I don't want to give up, and I don't want to check out. One thing to try, would be to lie more. We don't owe giant corporations the truth, but we especially don't owe them the whole truth. Never use your real name. Use fake addresses when you can. Use different email accounts for each site that needs one. Never use "social media logins". When you have to make payments, do so through Paypal or some other obfuscating s…

Yeah, but the convenience is, for example, I get cheap flight tickets, Cortana picks those out of my email and adds the trip to my calendar automatically, etc. How am I going to lie about any of that?

If your answer involves paying cash for airline tickets, then we're back to the high-priced, inconvenient world I'm no longer interested in trying to maintain.

Stuffing databases with fake data is fun when you're signing up for a newspaper paywall, sure, but that's not a sustainable, long-term solution.

This is why I'm looking at law and society, that's the only way these rights will be preserved long-term.

Re: The privacy wars are about to get a whole lot worse

#36

Post by mathiasben »

from the article - "Notice and consent is an absurd legal fiction."

it shouldn't be. "Notice and consent" should instead be a class taught in high schools. The ability to read, understand and NEGIOTIAGE these agreements should be within the mental grasp of everyone.

Re: The privacy wars are about to get a whole lot worse

#37

Post by lordcorusa »

jgaosgxy wrote: post #27
gavinpc wrote: post #21

Why doesn't Firefox ship with third-party cookies disabled? What would it break that isn't user-hostile? ( edit Chrome, IE, Safari, I understand, but privacy is one of Firefox's main differentiators.)

I always disable third-party cookies and very rarely does it break something. The most recent one I remember is logging in at the Origin website (online game store). The login form at checkout doesn't load at all without third-party cookies. While I would love to browse the web with all security and privacy features enabled and things like JavaScript disabled, it breaks too much. The middle ground between security/pr…

I agree. I used to use NoScript, RequestPolicy, and BetterPrivacy, but I finally realized I was spending far more time tuning policies than I was actually using the web. And they were TOTALLY unusable by non technically inclined people.

My compromise now is to use uBlock Origin (virtually never breaks anything), HTTPS Everywhere (on rare occasion breaks a site), Self-Destructing Cookies (by design cannot break sites), and 3rd-party cookies disabled.

The only thing that banning 3rd-party cookies broke was CapitalOne360's gateway into regular CapitalOne, but they even managed to fix this in recent months.

Re: The privacy wars are about to get a whole lot worse

#38

Post by ACS_Solver »

Paul-ish wrote: post #30
Frondo wrote: post #8

I used to feel strongly about not trading my privacy away for some convenience. For a long time I took a luddite pride in not being on various services, having a dumb phone, keeping it turned off, etc. Over time, though, I've found myself having a change of heart. What started as little inconveniences have turned into big ones, as I'm more and more out of touch with my peers, contemporaries, and family. I don't like…

> Companies can still track me, my data's still out there. I don' think this is right. When you were being a "luddite" you probably had less data collected about you, but you couldn't see that. All you can see is the cool tech stuff you are missing out on, so you feel that keenly. I think the reason a lot of people give up their privacy is that they feel like they have lost it already, so they might as well "Get what…

Yes, I think this is right. I have very privacy-conscious tech habits, and companies have some data on me, but probably far less than on the typical user of modern services. Some ways I protect myself:

1. Google account - I have one because it's required for Android, but I have never used Gmail, do not search from my Google account or ever log into it from my browser.

2. Facebook or any subsidiaries - never.

3. General Web browsing - reject 3rd party cookies automatically, browse with uBlock Origin, disabled JavaScript (via ScriptSafe) with selective enabling of scripts, Privacy Badger.

4. Only enter my real name online for things I explicitly need/want associated with me. Only enter my real address if actually needed for a delivery or other reason.

5. My mail client is set not to load remote images, which protects me from those 1x1 tracking images.

Many of these make the Internet a better experience, and certainly protect my privacy to a large degree. Yes, corporations have some data on me, but not much, and it's not all correct. I also don't feel I'm missing out on too much cool tech stuff, a lot of the privacy-unfriendly stuff is entirely unnecessary, for me at least, or replaced by alternatives that are not much worse.

Re: The privacy wars are about to get a whole lot worse

#39

Post by Frondo »

HSO wrote: post #24
Frondo wrote: post #8

I used to feel strongly about not trading my privacy away for some convenience. For a long time I took a luddite pride in not being on various services, having a dumb phone, keeping it turned off, etc. Over time, though, I've found myself having a change of heart. What started as little inconveniences have turned into big ones, as I'm more and more out of touch with my peers, contemporaries, and family. I don't like…

I also try to find a compromise. If we're talking pragmatic, as opposed to ideal, my suggestions in the current environment are: 1) Be offline as much as possible. I have banished the webbrowser from my phone and tablets. The main computer is completely airgapped; I keep an old laptop around to go online. But I installed an app called Self-Control and use it in whitelist mode. I keep a separate To Do list for things…

If you're happy with that kind of marginal existence, then that's great. It works for you.

I don't want to lose touch with people, because I don't view my contact with people as being part of a "hivemind". I view my time on Earth as one marked by civic and human engagement, where I want to share my ideas, bounce them off other people, strive to improve my community and the world, etc.

Stepping away from that to be a hermit, intellectually speaking? No thank you--there's too much living to do.

Besides, I realize that you don't really know me at all, and are just offering your comments out in a general sense, but it's pretty presumptuous to assert that people who want to live in a connected world are less likely to think interesting thoughts or develop their own sense of taste. Silly, too.

Re: The privacy wars are about to get a whole lot worse

#40

Post by Freak_NL »

jgaosgxy wrote: post #32
pcunite wrote: post #23

There is coming a point in time where every person must have a mark in order to buy or sell. It will be your access and citizen membership to a new global order. Enjoy your temporary freedom. History has a nasty way of modernizing itself.

Isn't this already happening? I got a tour from one of the techs at a major general store on how they track users "to enhance user experience". It's both impressive and terrifying. Using simple things like tracking the wireless signals on your smartphone they can see exactly when you pass or enter the store, which departments you visit and stay longest, etc. The system is even linked up to a camera at checkout so the…

The practice of tracking your location in a store by means of wifi and bluetooth connection signals has actually been deemed illegal by a judge in the Netherlands. There is some hope in legislation catching up with technology in that respect.
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