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The Metaprogrammer

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101–110 of 164 posts

Re: The Metaprogrammer

#101

Post by gbog »

Nursie wrote: post #56
V-2 wrote: post #34

"If they don't have the shiniest Apple MacBook then they can't work. Never mind that their job involves typing letters into a text file, something you could have done on CP/M back in '78" I don't want an Apple at all, but I do want a beefy machine because my job doesn't only involve typing text you see - for instance I also need to build the result of all that typing, and if it takes ages, guess what, the time I wast…

Building on your own desktop? That seems rather archaic. Well-connected and integrated access to a massive multicore build machine seems a little more modern. As time goes on (16 years as a dev now) I find myself a lot less concerned about this stuff.

Building, editing, testing, all of that is better done remotely with ssh and gnu screen or similar.

Re: The Metaprogrammer

#102

Post by GoToRO »

There are things that you will understand only when you have become a very good programmer. What this article says is "I have no idea how that must be" together with "There are so-so programmers that imitate very good programmers without knowing why.".

I agree with the last one, not with the first one. For example the more time you spend programming, the better you get but also the more important it becomes to have a good chair, desk, tools. Especially the chair, it is a health problem!

Then there are the perks he complains about, like food. They say 20% of your energy is consumed by the brain. What you eat directly affects how good you think and how much you can produce with your brain. Almost all the perks I have seen at top companies are nothing more than a recognition that employees are more productive if you give them these perks. It's all about money.

Re: The Metaprogrammer

#103

Post by xapata »

joshwcomeau wrote: post #22

I think that there's two distinct ideas here, and they're fused together. One of them (IMO) is valid, the other is not. "Programmers spend too much time attention-seeking, or debating online, instead of actually writing code" is a valid topic to debate over; I can see arguments on both sides, but it's certainly a thing that could be argued. The work we do is more important than all the meta-stuff surrounding that wor…

> produces results

Conversely, companies that don't offer good equipment are making a terrible decision. I once worked at a company with a single 14-inch monitor on every desk. In 2010. I was astonished.

Re: The Metaprogrammer

#104

Post by collyw »

xapata wrote: post #103
joshwcomeau wrote: post #22

I think that there's two distinct ideas here, and they're fused together. One of them (IMO) is valid, the other is not. "Programmers spend too much time attention-seeking, or debating online, instead of actually writing code" is a valid topic to debate over; I can see arguments on both sides, but it's certainly a thing that could be argued. The work we do is more important than all the meta-stuff surrounding that wor…

> produces results Conversely, companies that don't offer good equipment are making a terrible decision. I once worked at a company with a single 14-inch monitor on every desk. In 2010. I was astonished.

Personally I don't mind working on an average machine. I don't do anything with huge computing needs, and it shows where the bottlenecks are before they get into production. (Then the disk starts paging and I change my mind about having a better machine).

Re: The Metaprogrammer

#105

Post by collyw »

Jtsummers wrote: post #95

> Never mind that their job involves typing letters into a text file, something you could have done on CP/M back in '78. Gotta have that 40" monitor, it's essential, can't work without it. To insult a new hire by providing only a single 4:3 monitor? I can't work like this. I had a boss once that thought programmers just typed away for hours, how hard could it be? This portion is like that. Programming, well software…

>I had a boss once that thought programmers just typed away for hours, how hard could it be

Just look at the movies. "Hackers" always manage to break in to remote systems by typing lots into a terminal very fast. The more difficult the system, the faster they need to type. (Mr Robot has been a refreshing change to that stereotype).

Re: The Metaprogrammer

#106

Post by Nursie »

V-2 wrote: post #89
Nursie wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Building on your own desktop? That seems rather archaic. Well-connected and integrated access to a massive multicore build machine seems a little more modern. As time goes on (16 years as a dev now) I find myself a lot less concerned about this stuff.

I should be able to run unit tests locally, and have it happen quickly. Added to that, I'm often travelling on the job and sometimes code on the go, massive multicore build machine may be out of my reach > As time goes on (16 years as a dev now) I find myself a lot less concerned about this stuff. That's the point, we shouldn't be concerned, and it's best achieved by giving us equipment that lets us take this stuff o…

I think the point is that as you gain experience you realise how unimportant your local terminal is.

Engineers tend to grow out of it.

Not that many coders 'often' travel on the job, as a proportion. Most are office-bound.

Re: The Metaprogrammer

#107

Post by Nursie »

GoToRO wrote: post #102

There are things that you will understand only when you have become a very good programmer. What this article says is "I have no idea how that must be" together with "There are so-so programmers that imitate very good programmers without knowing why.". I agree with the last one, not with the first one. For example the more time you spend programming, the better you get but also the more important it becomes to have a…

Definitely with you on the chair!

The other tools, so long as they're adequate, don't need to be that shiny... IMHO

Re: The Metaprogrammer

#108

Post by amyjess »

taurath wrote: post #5

Ah the never ending lament about programmers asking for nice things. Sorry, $4k in capital costs for someone you're paying well into 6 figures for to make your business exist isn't that bad. A fast pc is necessary depending on what you're doing - making knowledge workers more comfortable effects their output.

And have you noticed that you only hear these laments when it's programmers? Nobody laments when somebody in the sales, finance, or marketing departments wants nice things. Hell, in the business side of many companies, getting a nicer chair and/or a bigger office is just as much a part of your promotion as the title, raise, and direct reports are.

But it seems that there are people intent on cutting programmers off from the same perks that MBA types consider essential. It would be one thing if this backlash came from management; at least that would make sense as a cost-saving measure, but in the case of this article, it's coming from other programmers. It seems that not only are programmers undercompensated, but other programmers are actively seeking to keep us undercompensated.

Is this crab mentality [0] at work or just ignorance of how non-technical people get compensated?

Either way, it makes me wonder if I went into the right profession. I went into software engineering because I love computers, and coding is fun, but I have to wonder if I'd be better off if I got my MBA instead of a CS degree and went into finance or marketing or something (I know I don't have what it takes to do sales).

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality

Re: The Metaprogrammer

#109

Post by pyrale »

I consider this article to be the über meta-troll.

Writing a blog entry discussing about how the community discusses about things surrounding their jobs rather than actually doing it, rather than actually doing one's job is either a very clever pun, or very short-sighted.

This entry also documents how one-liners can get a bit confusing.

Re: The Metaprogrammer

#110

Post by gorogue »

I actually found the post to be mostly true - at least for me. It struck me on a personal level because I find myself talking about being an indie game developer. I have cool hardware, all the game programming books, and some interesting prototypes, but I still haven't shipped a game. Talking about it is just easier and more fun than actually doing the work.
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