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The Metaprogrammer

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Re: The Metaprogrammer

#92

This effect is observable not only in the programming community, but in many others. Best example would be photography, where people spend much more time discussing their equipment and the newest lenses instead of going out and actually take pictures. I had to experience this for myself when searching for new hobbies. With most of them, I spent most time with the meta, e.g., which fountain pen to use for my writing o…

I think any hobby that attracts interest in the first place also attracts "purists". Coffee. Computers. Photography. Shaving (and the eight different major sub variants of shaving methods). Smoking meat. Smoking tobacco. Vaping. Audio equipment.

Pick a wikipedia page and chances are that scattered across the world, you'll find a handful or more of purists dedicating themselves to that subject. The internet has made it much simpler for these purists to indulge in their obsession with the meta.

Meanwhile most of the people into a hobby keep on just doing it with the equipment and materials they have. The purists do the hobbyist [1] a service in that they discuss every myriad detail at great length, frequently. The hobbyist gets free research this way, and the purist can continue to feel satisfied in their knowledge of the subject.

1. It's not that purists aren't also hobbyists - but their hobby as often the meta of the subject as much as the doing of the subject.

Re: The Metaprogrammer

#93
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's your workflow. Some prefer two monitors. I prefer to have two computers and two screens instead of two monitors and one computer. (double the keyboards)

Why would you do that? Two keyboards sound a waste of time

I'm just used to it, there's no good reason. First, I had a desktop, then bought a laptop, kept the desktop in front of me, the laptop on the left. At some point the desktop left my desk and I only had a laptop, then after many minor changes over time [skipping a lot] I found myself in front of two desktops.

But it doubles the power! Isn't it how this work?

Re: The Metaprogrammer

#94
"When did the messenger become more important than the message?"

About five minutes before complaining about how the message isn't important any more became more important than the message.

Re: The Metaprogrammer

#95
> Never mind that their job involves typing letters into a text file, something you could have done on CP/M back in '78. Gotta have that 40" monitor, it's essential, can't work without it. To insult a new hire by providing only a single 4:3 monitor? I can't work like this.

I had a boss once that thought programmers just typed away for hours, how hard could it be? This portion is like that.

Programming, well software engineering, is much more than that. I have a half-dozen spec documents to pull in from. I have databases to look at. I have log files to parse through. I have code to read and write.

Yes, this is all primarily text. But it's not just typing.

Using a single 15" 4:3 monitor is like trying to steer a submarine with the only knowledge coming in through the periscope. But you have to turn the whole sub to rotate the periscope.

It's the extra monitors, or let me print off 5000 pages or so of text and bind them and keep them on my desk at all times. Probably more, I'm on several projects. And the bindings won't last. I need to see content on page 100 and 712 at the same time. Oh, and then I'll have to print out each revision unless they're provided with a good diff. Or don't let me do either, require me to keep way too much information in my head and let me fuck up the project.

EDIT: That said, his other points may be valid. But I've never met the people that fit his description. I've "programmers" who don't program. I've worked with them. Well, I've worked, they've hung out. But the cafe stuffs and other things, I've never seen anyone that cared. Chairs, maybe, but he had a bad back so that was a valid concern.

> Some of the best programmers I've ever worked with don't have twitter accounts. It's almost unthinkable, isn't it? How can they possibly be one of the top programmers in the world, building the most successful projects out there, without being seen to be doing it? You can write beautiful code, the best code in the world, but it doesn't mean a damn today if you didn't blog about your new standing desk.

I also find this a little ironic, reading this metaprogrammers blog deriding metaprogrammers with a "follow me on twitter" link at the bottom.

Re: The Metaprogrammer

#96
post #39

This effect is observable not only in the programming community, but in many others. Best example would be photography, where people spend much more time discussing their equipment and the newest lenses instead of going out and actually take pictures. I had to experience this for myself when searching for new hobbies. With most of them, I spent most time with the meta, e.g., which fountain pen to use for my writing o…

Audiophiles - probably the most prominent example of them all.

I have a friend like this. I've been in bands in the past and worked in (even built my own) studios. I seen and partaken the 24/96 vs. 16/48 debate (spoiler: that only matters in the studio). I've worked with high end mics, pres, dacs, boards, tape, etc.

The big thing we tangle on is always digital vs. analog. Oh boy.... Zzzzz... I've cut tape and editing on analog sucks. Noise on analog is not ideal. Compression and 'natural' bottom end warmth are nice. But that's where it stops. Most of (all of?) these things can now be simulated by plugins. We don't even have to say digital has won because it's so obvious. Analog is there for the minority purists.

This debate has between us has taken many hours over many years. Oh yah, let's not forget vinyl too!..

I've had to recently redirect the argument to musicianmanship, which I feel is really where the rubber meets the road. It all starts at the source. If your source sucks, then you'll have some work to do to fix it. Stuff like autotune, sample triggers, etc. In this way, analog is better as it will demand more of the musician's performance. Hard to swap out the kick drum on analog.

All in all, I personally don't think any non-studio experienced audiophiles would know if something was recorded digitally vs. analog. There are so many things you can do now and unless you know those studio 'tricks', you can't even tell. This has already been the case since the 90's I think. Everything can pretty much be simulated, processed, filtered, chopped, moved, etc.

One great resource for all this is Ken Andrews. Look him up. He's got a lot of great stories and insight on recording.

My advice to my friend: learn the tools and use what make sense artistically. But debate for theory's sake is pointless in my mind.

Re: The Metaprogrammer

#99
post #58

You use the right tools for the job --- and when you're sitting in front of a computer for 8-14 hours a day, why wouldn't you want the best tools? Are you gonna build a new wood-piece with a hand-powered screw-driver? "You post an article about a new programming language, you'll get 10 replies. But start a discussion on what headphones you wear while you work, and ten-thousand people will rise up from nowhere, pushin…

I've had this debate with my wife before. She absolutely pummels her MB Pro from 2012. Keys are breaking, she has a gazillion windows open (including vmware since she runs an old quickbooks on windows), desktop completely covered in photos of family/kids. I look at how she 'works' and I think at first 'wow, what a mess'. But then it's clear it's totally just a lower rung tool for her business - she is not in the tech space.

For anyone who doesn't program or create all day on a screen, it's hard for them to empathize. But all these things are real to me. Knocking 30s off a build can knock off 10-30 mins of wait time a day. It all adds up. On a scale from 1 - 10 (10 being an ultra maxed out everything machine) I usually hover around 7-8. I know after all these years that my concentration and execution are the most important thing I have and I don't need workspace things to get in the way of that.

Sadly, headphones are a part of that now. ;-(

Re: The Metaprogrammer

#100
post #76

This is a misuse of the prefix "meta". "Meta" does not mean "reflection over X". It means "X about X". Saying "metaprogrammer" means "programming about programming". The conventional use of the term "metaprogramming" is correct; unless you can claim that discussing desk chairs is somehow programming about programming, the use of the term metaprogramming to describe this is simply erroneous. (I'd also like to add that…

Way back when, in ancient Greek, "meta" just meant "alongside" or "next to" or "after".

Then Aristotle wrote a book called "Physics" (though its subject was broader than what we now call physics) and another book whose title has been lost, about more abstruse things. It was typically shelved next to the "Physics" and listed after it in catalogues, and it was alleged that Aristotle thought its contents should be taught later than those of the "Physics", and it therefore came to be known as "Metaphysics": the thing that comes after the "Physics".

Because the stuff in the "Metaphysics" was felt to be deeper and more advanced than the stuff in the "Physics", "meta-" came to mean something like "beyond" -- with indeed a connotation of "X about X", but by no means always. "Metamathematics" is mathematics about mathematics, but "metapolitics" is theorizing about politics, not doing politics about politics.

(The above may sound ridiculous, but it really is where this usage of "meta-" comes from.)

I agree that it's weird to take "metaprogramming" to mean "discussion of things like office furniture, big monitors and text editors", and that "metaprogramming" already has a meaning and that that isn't it. But the problem isn't that "meta" can only mean "X about X"; that simply isn't true.

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