Why Remote Work Should Change Startup Culture • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Remote Work Should Change Startup Culture

#51

Post by was_boring » Tue, Sep 06, 2016, 4:28 PM UTC

I've been working remote for a number of years (both as an engineer and a manager) and it can be a challenge for everyone involved because the lack of norms around remote work.

We are taught early in our careers to show up early, leave late and look as if you are working hard. However, when it comes to remote work the look of working hard cannot be achieved so easily -- so instead of appearances you must focus on results above all else.

This mental shift takes time to achieve and is more easily said than done.

Re: Why Remote Work Should Change Startup Culture

#52

Post by sitkack » Tue, Sep 06, 2016, 4:31 PM UTC

drvdevd wrote: post #37

doozy wrote: post #16

I've made a career out of remote work (10+ years working remotely), and I have to say this is a pretty poor article. No, remote work is not for everyone, you need to know what you are doing at both ends or it'll not match your expectations. No, it does not (necessarily) bring the best global talent, specially not if your motivation for remote is bringing down costs. And no, you don't need to use any of the tools list…

I agree. And I work remotely now. It seems the #1 requirement for remote work to work is ... mutual understanding. Otherwise you end up with communication gaps. The case for VCS is interesting to me because I believe we could replace a number of complex tools in the stack with proper use and style on top of that. Literally, we could do 90% of it all with just a VCS and people paying attention to it . You know: commit…

Do either you @doozy know of a shared/multiparty merge tool? One thing I like to do is merge into a new clean branch rather than rebase, then merge that into trunk with zero changes.

Re: Why Remote Work Should Change Startup Culture

#53

Post by dba7dba » Tue, Sep 06, 2016, 4:31 PM UTC

jcadam wrote: post #8

Several months ago I interviewed for a remote position with a startup based in NYC. The technical screening consisted of a project and of course a couple of phone interviews. After I did well on all of that, I was flown up to NYC for a 'culture-fit' interview. Which I failed, apparently. As a mid-30s guy who was raised in the mid-west, I felt like I had very little in common with the 20-something urbanites with whom…

I find it very ironic that a company in NYC full of 20-something (who probably identify strongly with diversity and Dems rather than GOP) insist on hiring people like themselves...

Re: Why Remote Work Should Change Startup Culture

#54

Post by eropple » Tue, Sep 06, 2016, 4:44 PM UTC

endswapper wrote: post #34

vonmoltke wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's valid, I believe, for the company to vet candidates for culture fit I don't really agree. I come from a traditional engineering background and consider myself a professional. As such, I expect to be judged on issues of professional decorum (i.e. what I would term an "asshole test"). That is part of culture, I suppose, but beyond that there should be no "fit" determination. This is especially true since this in…

There is a major difference between "culture fit" and the ability to adapt. Both serve a distinct purpose and both are valid. Someone's ability to adapt shows tactical proficiency. Particularly in an engineering environment I would put a high premium on tactical proficiency because the objectives are typically explicit and linear. Culture fit speaks to traits like open-mindedness, inclusion and confidence in leadersh…

"Culture fit" doesn't mean "open-mindedness, inclusion, and confidence in leadership" (and if meant the third of those you'd be being taken for a ride--leadership doesn't deserve confidence, results must be substantiated and all "confidence" does is let a company's leadership abuse you). In my experience, what "culture fit" really means is merely "are they like me." It is a filter to remove women and (most) minorities because those people are harder for most (often white, usually young, overwhelmingly male) startup people to relate to. And this makes them uncomfortable, and discomfort is to be avoided because otherwise one might engage in introspection. Pass; no hire.

I'm very good at passing such tests because I know how the kinds of people who think this is a good idea operate and what to feed them--by avoiding discomfort and self-introspection I think it's a lot easier to end up in a mental cul-de-sac that leads to being easily played. But knowing the game makes playing it even more gross, so I don't. (Things are better here on the East Coast than the Bay Area, but they're not good.)

Re: Why Remote Work Should Change Startup Culture

#55

Post by tinbad » Tue, Sep 06, 2016, 4:47 PM UTC

Working remotely to me is not as much as work in office vs. work at home but being more accountable for you work and, as a result, being more productive.

The notion of working remotely forces us to rethink how we measure productivity and I feel the most push back comes from people who just realized they have little or nothing to contribute in this new environment and become fearful for their position.

To me, it's completely in line with the new economy where just having one skill is not enough anymore. If you want to be good at something, you need to constantly be entering new areas in order to bring enough value for companies to provide you a paycheck. For a very long time, just showing up to your job was good enough and I think it's a great thing this mentality has started to shift.

Re: Why Remote Work Should Change Startup Culture

#56

Post by endswapper » Tue, Sep 06, 2016, 4:47 PM UTC

vonmoltke wrote: post #50

endswapper wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a major difference between "culture fit" and the ability to adapt. Both serve a distinct purpose and both are valid. Someone's ability to adapt shows tactical proficiency. Particularly in an engineering environment I would put a high premium on tactical proficiency because the objectives are typically explicit and linear. Culture fit speaks to traits like open-mindedness, inclusion and confidence in leadersh…

> Simply, if you are seeking to optimize an entire organization for the best possible results in working towards your objectives, culture fit is relevant. My opinion, hinted at in another post in this discussion, is that this optimization is a fool's errand, particularly for a larger team. If the decision is between a New York startup hiring a technically-competent Midwesterner or waiting six months to find that opti…

You appear to disagree that it is valid to vet a candidate for cultural fit:

"'> It's valid, I believe, for the company to vet candidates for culture fit' I don't really agree..."

You go on to say it is "counterproductive" and "dishonest."

Maybe if you reduce it to a specific, binary instance ("hiring a technically-competent Midwesterner or waiting six months") you can shoehorn your point in to the conversation, but that fails to refute the validity or relevance of cultural fit.

Re: Why Remote Work Should Change Startup Culture

#57

Post by eropple » Tue, Sep 06, 2016, 4:49 PM UTC

ryanmarsh wrote: post #43

mccolin wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is definitely something that happens. It's valid, I believe, for the company to vet candidates for culture fit, but the go should not be hiring a team of "sames." In a recent batch of interviews (four opportunities local, three remote), I was put through a specific culture fit step of the interview process at all but one company, and it was part of all remote hiring processes.

> It's valid, I believe, for the company to vet candidates for culture fit I'm not sure what culture fit means. I have been passed over for culture fit and seen others passed over for culture fit and I have never seen it be because someone couldn't be productive with their peers. It seems, anecdotally, to just be based upon affinity, which seems stupid to me unless you're a lifestyle brand, like FitStar. In the Army…

> In the Army I learned culture can be taught.

This requires effort. The obsession with "leanness" translates into skimping on many things; instilling a rigorous culture is one of them. It takes too long and costs too much and it's easier to just emoji-shrug.

> That smells to me like a leadership vacuum.

Oh, you noticed.

Re: Why Remote Work Should Change Startup Culture

#58

Post by seangrogg » Tue, Sep 06, 2016, 4:50 PM UTC

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #26

vonmoltke wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's valid, I believe, for the company to vet candidates for culture fit I don't really agree. I come from a traditional engineering background and consider myself a professional. As such, I expect to be judged on issues of professional decorum (i.e. what I would term an "asshole test"). That is part of culture, I suppose, but beyond that there should be no "fit" determination. This is especially true since this in…

It really depends on what "culture fit" means - lots of people have way different definitions. On the shitty side, there's people who mean something like "would I enjoy getting drinks with this person on a Friday night". On the actually reasonable side, there's "would I expect this person to use their initiative to find and solve problems while minimally supervised".

I definitely use the "would I enjoy getting drinks" bar and I feel it's perfectly valid though - I'll admit - poorly worded. It really has nothing to do with actually wanting to get drinks with the person (I'd at least like to pretend I have a social life outside of work) but rather being perfectly comfortable talking with the person regardless of the social situation.

Yeah, if you can do your work with minimal supervision that's gravy and stuff... but if I don't enjoy talking to you that's a huge communication red flag for me. And perhaps that's a communication flaw with me not being able to flawlessly interface with all human beings - but I'd much rather be working with the people I can level with regardless of the topic.

Fortunately, most of my roles are of the "engineer" and individual contributor variety so my opinions on potential hires are often supplemental anecdotes rather than actual decisions.

Re: Why Remote Work Should Change Startup Culture

#59

Post by eropple » Tue, Sep 06, 2016, 4:56 PM UTC

seangrogg wrote: post #58

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really depends on what "culture fit" means - lots of people have way different definitions. On the shitty side, there's people who mean something like "would I enjoy getting drinks with this person on a Friday night". On the actually reasonable side, there's "would I expect this person to use their initiative to find and solve problems while minimally supervised".

I definitely use the "would I enjoy getting drinks" bar and I feel it's perfectly valid though - I'll admit - poorly worded. It really has nothing to do with actually wanting to get drinks with the person (I'd at least like to pretend I have a social life outside of work) but rather being perfectly comfortable talking with the person regardless of the social situation. Yeah, if you can do your work with minimal super…

Being able to "level with someone" who is not like you is a learnable skill. Given the studied and demonstrable bias towards cultural (human culture, not "tech culture"), racial, and gender similarity when selecting for fit, not doing so, and contributing to continued disparities and injustices within this industry and society at large, is immoral and unethical and you should stop.

And it's foolish besides. You would "enjoy" talking to me, so long as I cared to play the game you want to play. There's no reason for that to continue once I've got the job (though at this point in my career I don't need to play your as monkey).

The third rail in these discussions is that, in tech, it is very likely that I also look like you and it is very likely that I speak similarly enough to you. I get a free pass for a lot of things from that. My lack of "culture fit" is by choice, because I think tech culture is a tire fire of gross mentalities and I don't mind criticizing it. Others have an uphill slog that is not of their choice.

Re: Why Remote Work Should Change Startup Culture

#60

Post by sidlls » Tue, Sep 06, 2016, 4:57 PM UTC

bluedino wrote: post #32

maqr wrote: post #4

If more startups allowed remote workers, would the salaries of developers fall in the bay area?

Startups aren't the companies that are paying high salaries in the Bay Area, so no.

This, too. Most startup compensation packages seem to be 20% (or more) below market rate + lottery tickets.