Why Remote Work Should Change Startup Culture • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Remote Work Should Change Startup Culture

#21

Post by vonmoltke » Tue, Sep 06, 2016, 3:41 PM UTC

mccolin wrote: post #11

jcadam wrote: post #8

Several months ago I interviewed for a remote position with a startup based in NYC. The technical screening consisted of a project and of course a couple of phone interviews. After I did well on all of that, I was flown up to NYC for a 'culture-fit' interview. Which I failed, apparently. As a mid-30s guy who was raised in the mid-west, I felt like I had very little in common with the 20-something urbanites with whom…

This is definitely something that happens. It's valid, I believe, for the company to vet candidates for culture fit, but the go should not be hiring a team of "sames." In a recent batch of interviews (four opportunities local, three remote), I was put through a specific culture fit step of the interview process at all but one company, and it was part of all remote hiring processes.

> It's valid, I believe, for the company to vet candidates for culture fit

I don't really agree. I come from a traditional engineering background and consider myself a professional. As such, I expect to be judged on issues of professional decorum (i.e. what I would term an "asshole test"). That is part of culture, I suppose, but beyond that there should be no "fit" determination. This is especially true since this industry assumes people are going to be changing jobs every 2 - 3 years.

I'm a professional; I adapt to my environment. Sure, I like and work in some better than others, but I can be effective and productive in almost any. Trying to optimize your hires for this while simultaneously complaining about talent shortages is counterproductive, and on some level dishonest.

Re: Why Remote Work Should Change Startup Culture

#22

Post by vonmoltke » Tue, Sep 06, 2016, 3:44 PM UTC

mccolin wrote: post #14

vonmoltke wrote: post #3

One frustrating thing I have found about companies willing to hire remotely is that many refuse to be your first remote gig; i.e. they only hire people who already have years of experience working remote. I understand the hesitation, but if good people really are so hard to find it should be a hesitation that can't stand up in the face of being unable to get things done. Then again, neither should resistance to remot…

Hiring teams that are just "getting their feet wet" with remote workers are going to be more hesitant. When there is an in-company precedent for what remote work is like, I find them to be more open. For me, making the transition from on-site to remote work was difficult. Like any job skill, it's something I had to be able to demonstrate proficiency and/or history with before I could land full-time, remote employment…

That creates a chicken-and-egg situation, though, since it is not a skill you can develop on your own. There are a set of skills (remote work, TDD, pair programming, Agile, etc.) that, almost by definition, you need to do professionally to become proficient at. If all the professional gigs expect you to already be proficient, you never get there.

Re: Why Remote Work Should Change Startup Culture

#23

Post by kilroy123 » Tue, Sep 06, 2016, 3:46 PM UTC

Klathmon wrote: post #15

Fifer82 wrote: post #7

I spent the last 7 years working remotely. Never been a problem. The way I see it personally, is that I would pay to work at home. The money I save on transport, the time, the dinners, clothes, forced social activities. Not having to stand in the rain for half a year, late trains, queues, peoples annoying faces..... The list of positives = endless

As someone that also works remote, it's not all roses and daisies. Communication can be very hard at times without someone there to manage it, keep everyone in the loop, and make sure nobody is left out. We go into the office once a week, and i've found that on those days, just being in the office lets me overhear conversations about things that I can offer a solution to, or having a few people in the same area shoot…

I agree. I've been working remote for the last year and a half. First of all, I wasn't very good at it. It took many months to get disciplined enough to do it. Secondly, like you said, there are so many hallway conversations that happen, you end up missing out on.

I was recently in the office for a week. I heard so many personal discussions about things, I was able to weigh in on.

I walked away realizing I really am not contributing as much as I could, not being there in person.

Re: Why Remote Work Should Change Startup Culture

#24

Post by novocaine » Tue, Sep 06, 2016, 3:52 PM UTC

jcadam wrote: post #20

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you describe what the culture-fit interviewing stage was like?

A series of interviews with various members of the team. Most of the questions were non-technical (or fairly high-level if they were). "Describe a time at work when you had to do X." etc. Of course, lunch with the team was part of the process as well (Eating while being evaluated is never fun, and I find I don't eat much).

That isn't a cultural fit question, it's a behavioral interview question.

Re: Why Remote Work Should Change Startup Culture

#25

Post by nfriedly » Tue, Sep 06, 2016, 3:53 PM UTC

I currently work remote for IBM Watson and I love it - I'm more productive, have more time to spend with my family, etc. My team and my direct manager are fantastic. I've worked remote before, and led remote teams with good results, but this has been my best experience yet.

However, my position is in peril due to management changes a few rungs up the ladder. While the previous guy in charge of Watson wanted the best people, the new one wants everyone on-site in about 10 cities. (Previously, folks were spread out across ~50 offices + remote workers like myself.)

I received a "temporary exception", and I don't honestly think they'll actually go through with it when that's up. But it's still a frustrating position to be in, and has caused me to start looking elsewhere. So far, I can't seem to find a combination of:

* Remote

* Comparable pay

* As much fun as my current job

I'm seriously contemplating just starting my own company again.

Re: Why Remote Work Should Change Startup Culture

#26

Post by ThrustVectoring » Tue, Sep 06, 2016, 3:56 PM UTC

vonmoltke wrote: post #21

mccolin wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is definitely something that happens. It's valid, I believe, for the company to vet candidates for culture fit, but the go should not be hiring a team of "sames." In a recent batch of interviews (four opportunities local, three remote), I was put through a specific culture fit step of the interview process at all but one company, and it was part of all remote hiring processes.

> It's valid, I believe, for the company to vet candidates for culture fit I don't really agree. I come from a traditional engineering background and consider myself a professional. As such, I expect to be judged on issues of professional decorum (i.e. what I would term an "asshole test"). That is part of culture, I suppose, but beyond that there should be no "fit" determination. This is especially true since this in…

It really depends on what "culture fit" means - lots of people have way different definitions. On the shitty side, there's people who mean something like "would I enjoy getting drinks with this person on a Friday night". On the actually reasonable side, there's "would I expect this person to use their initiative to find and solve problems while minimally supervised".

Re: Why Remote Work Should Change Startup Culture

#27

Post by sidlls » Tue, Sep 06, 2016, 3:56 PM UTC

mccolin wrote: post #11

jcadam wrote: post #8

Several months ago I interviewed for a remote position with a startup based in NYC. The technical screening consisted of a project and of course a couple of phone interviews. After I did well on all of that, I was flown up to NYC for a 'culture-fit' interview. Which I failed, apparently. As a mid-30s guy who was raised in the mid-west, I felt like I had very little in common with the 20-something urbanites with whom…

This is definitely something that happens. It's valid, I believe, for the company to vet candidates for culture fit, but the go should not be hiring a team of "sames." In a recent batch of interviews (four opportunities local, three remote), I was put through a specific culture fit step of the interview process at all but one company, and it was part of all remote hiring processes.

This is the most striking difference between software shops and, well, any other kind of engineering, this emphasis on "culture fit."

There are lots of different components to culture. There is no rigor behind it, which is in contrast to the self-described emphasis on extreme logical rigor that the industry is allegedly built on. Why is there such an emphasis on "culture fit" in the software industry?

Re: Why Remote Work Should Change Startup Culture

#28

Post by soulnothing » Tue, Sep 06, 2016, 3:56 PM UTC

I've worked partially remote for the past two years. I had one horrid stint fully remote where they thought remote == 24 hour work days.

There are pros and cons to remote. It depends on your team and their culture. Some teams need a whiteboard and planning sessions. Others can just do a screen share and work on a flow chart together. If your team and culture is capable of remote it's a really nice perk for employees.

The other thing I hear about is lack of social contact working remote. This was an issue for me before I developed some outside hobbies. But the remote work spawned the hobbies, because I had more time. Where as working on site I don't have any time for hobbies due to travel and preparation for the day. I really haven't maintained ties with my prior co workers. The one I still do meet frequently we worked together on a primarily remote job, 3 days a week. So you can still maintain good social contact over the days.

The only real reason I see for not remote is management and culture issues. If your superiors can derive your progress from a dash board, commits, tickets, etc. Then it's feasible. Where as if the only way to determine progress is one one one meetings with a white board, then remote won't work. This also speaks to the trust of the employees.

I also find I get so much more done at home. This goes back to the culture. In person offices are from what I've seen largely instant gratification. I.E. coming over knocking on your desk asking a question, or pulling you in for a meeting. This provides so many distractions pulling you away from work. Remote would be an email or chat message. If it was extremely urgent a phone call. It was almost asynchronous. As we were planning out software we would just amend design notes and update the flow diagram in jira.

Lastly is the peace of mind of comfort. One of the common things I did when working remote was sitting in a gazebo at my nearby park. I tethered off my phone for the day, and just listened to nature. Being camped up in an office staring at walls all day is not ideal. Getting out being able to walk around and clear your head can make the day so much easier.

I really want to get back to fully remote.

Re: Why Remote Work Should Change Startup Culture

#29

Post by Klathmon » Tue, Sep 06, 2016, 3:58 PM UTC

kilroy123 wrote: post #23

Klathmon wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone that also works remote, it's not all roses and daisies. Communication can be very hard at times without someone there to manage it, keep everyone in the loop, and make sure nobody is left out. We go into the office once a week, and i've found that on those days, just being in the office lets me overhear conversations about things that I can offer a solution to, or having a few people in the same area shoot…

I agree. I've been working remote for the last year and a half. First of all, I wasn't very good at it. It took many months to get disciplined enough to do it. Secondly, like you said, there are so many hallway conversations that happen, you end up missing out on. I was recently in the office for a week. I heard so many personal discussions about things, I was able to weigh in on. I walked away realizing I really am…

Yeah. When i first started it took me a long time to get into the right mindset.

What works for us is "status meetings" where we all go over a bit about what we are working on for the next few days. They seem pretty useless on paper, but it allows people to chime in with "wait, will you be touching system X", or "hey i worked with that before give me a call", and it gets i'd say 70% of the benefits of hallway conversations, but it's still not perfect.

I feel like a "sidebar" system of "not quite isolated, but not conversation-dominating like talking to the whole group" kind of in-between mode in group video chat software would be a godsend, but the UX of getting it right would be really hard.

Also, for something more programmer related, having peer code-review is really helpful as well. We don't do it as much as we should, but having a few people look over your commits, and you over theirs is a great way to get some of the benefits from that "hallway conversation" while also solving some other problems.

Re: Why Remote Work Should Change Startup Culture

#30

Post by dboreham » Tue, Sep 06, 2016, 3:58 PM UTC

mcjiggerlog wrote: post #6

vladimirralev wrote: post #2

With startups it's quite difficult - remote law, pay and equity. Law for contracts and equity in different countries vary. Buying power is inconsistent. Stock options in particular are strongly biased against holders with lower pay, since they will have to take greater risk to buy their stake at cost of many more years worth of salary. You got to make sure so many things add up in multiple places, otherwise it's just…

This may be the case, but I'd guess the vast majority of software work is salary only. Having remote workers working as self-employed contractors should actually make the paperwork a lot easier for the company.

Unfortunately in some legal jurisdictions (e.g. the USA) this would not be allowed. You can't simply declare an employee to be self-employed and compensate them by means of invoices/1099 filings. This arrangement is only allowed if, among other things, the employee performs work for a number (greater than 1) of clients.